How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?

Question R24U

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Stop trying to seek the demise of Sinn Féin would be one good way to prevent FF ruling forever. Many SF voters are soft on FF and Bertie Ahern to his credit recognised this. Hence his "moving north" stance. In the border counties especially FG are viewed as been slightly better than the Spanish Inquisition. Only slightly though and civil war politics are alive and well in many rural communties.

FF is a master of playing the opposition parties off against one another. They didn't really believe in the "we won't do a deal with SF" before the last general election but it was an excellent ruse that allowed them to make sure people didn't give SF transfers and therefore damage potential soft FF seats. If they had needed Sinn Féin they would have found some way to bring us into government. That is the strength of FF it mutates and changes to suit every situation. I don't admire their politics but I do admire their survival instinct. Perhaps if the rest of us in Irish politics had the same instinct we would spend less time on the opposition benches.
You appear to understand why Fianna Fail has become so good at coalition governments (after their initial efforts), Fianna Fail, itself is the ultimate coalition. Those who view the party in very narrow terms such a the Builder's friends or the Publican Party, miss the point. Its reach and representation is far broader than that. Which means that it act as if it is in opposition, when it is in government.
 


smitchy2

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Simple answer is that the single party state (FF) will be ended at the next election.
It takes a long time for generational voting to switch from FF but this will begin after the next budget.
No one in their lifetime will have experienced such a sharp adjustment of their incomes and it will begin to really hit home what a mess FF has made.
No other country in the EU is getting until 2013 to fix their mess. It blows a hole in their international factors BS they love to spout out.

We really need a true left in this country (that is not in bed with bloated union heads).
Until that day power will switch between FG/FF for the next 10-20 years.

Despite the recent polls- I expect the left slanted parties to do extremely well in the next election when unemployment is at 15% and the economy is back at pre 2000 levels.
 

slingshot

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R24U

Fair play, what you suggest is reasonable and balanced, as an unaffiliated voter myself the choice however left in Irish politics are limited, (I have also voted FF in the past).

Looking at it historically the reason for FF exisiting has always been about the retention of power , influence, gifts for the party faithful, the hangers on and of course the golden circles of friends, bankers and developers.

FF are certainly not now and have never much been about serving the people with vision, courage, idealism and integrity in trying to advance our courntry . None of the other parties may offer all these attributes but they do have some of these attributes as they have not been corrupted by an almost unending run of power and control

FF have been a disaster for this country both socially and economically and have deprived the Irish people of a truly propserous , socially balacned and progressive society. They are however masters of the political game.

I guess my point though and i strongy agree with you is that even if the other options are not great, -(FG -lab most likely) it is a change and having FF in power ad infinitum perpetuates a party which like a cancer mutates to suit its own ends and destroys and eventually kills the host, - in this case Ireland as a modern viable entity,( how far away are the IMF?, who is propping us up now? -probably the EU, it is unbelievable that we cannot stand on our own feet in the world after nearly a century)

It is time to to cut them out of power . This is easier said than done though as like a cancer looking for control without reference to the health of the host , FF will ally to other parties and infect and kill others in an all consuming lust for control and power , witness the demise of the PD, and I am sure quite soon the greens (imagine what the green vote could be now only for the fatal embrace of FF!).

Once again after an election one of the smaller parties will be tempted and may well fall for the poisoned embrace of FF (I will assume that the core FF vote is a min 30-35%), if they succumb they are perpetuating FF power and the inevitable decline of their own party.

The onus and honesty must come on the other parties to make it quite unambiguous in the next election how they will face the inevitable approach from FF.

FF need to be cut out before they even start at the next GE.
 

Tiernanator

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You appear to understand why Fianna Fail has become so good at coalition governments (after their initial efforts), Fianna Fail, itself is the ultimate coalition. Those who view the party in very narrow terms such a the Builder's friends or the Publican Party, miss the point. Its reach and representation is far broader than that. Which means that it act as if it is in opposition, when it is in government.
Your last sentence was absolutely spot on.
 

Question R24U

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5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.
John Drennann does not think that it is completely impossible:
When it comes to crunch, FF can't count on majority - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

He lists McDaid and Behan as nit guaranteed to support.
Paul Cogarty as windy.
Cuffe and Mary White as possible (I would be amazed).
He lists another 7 potential troublemakers in FF - again, most are unlikely in my view.
And another 4 "unknowns" which includes Grealish, Collins (give me a break), O'Sullivan and another (neither of whom I know anything about).

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.
This is better analysed here:
http://www.politics.ie/oireachtas/17779-will-govt-have-seanad-majority-2.html#post1528377
 

Question R24U

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Confidence is draining away. The S & P indication that an election is required to provide a new mandate to a new government, is as good as saying to the world lenders- stay away from Ireland until there is a change. Whatever one thinks of rating agencies - the game is up.

In terms of saving ff TDs - cowen should fall on his sword after the budget fails (get the retirees /windies to walk), then the failed TDs could at least run for the senate with the 400 councillors having a vote.

Friday 1st May election? (better still for ff have it on the thursday to minimise students voting)
 
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Question R24U

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The FF oligarchy needs to be broken. It falls on Fine Gael to do so, heres how:
1. This weekend it aggressively targets the million plus private sector Paye workers. Make a virtue of the fact that it is their only representative body. Let labour sweep up the public sector workers' support. The transfers will come.
2. After the budget is announced, it will encourage constituents of the windy ff TDs to contact them by phone, email, and personally.
3. It tries every way possible to get any of them to vote against it or at least abstain.
4 it uses the local elections to teach ABFF to voters.
5. It looks into every bit of dirt going against cowen and anyone whom he supported. The gloves must come off.
6. The greens must be put under sustained pressure on every front. Every day. Idealistic young people must be encouraged to join the greens to vote it out of government. It is the most democratic of parties and every member in it for six months has a vote. They need to be signed up therefore by september at the latest..
 

Tiernanator

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The FF oligarchy needs to be broken. It falls on Fine Gael to do so, heres how:
1. This weekend it aggressively targets the million plus private sector Paye workers. Make a virtue of the fact that it is their only representative body. Let labour sweep up the public sector workers' support. The transfers will come.
2. After the budget is announced, it will encourage constituents of the windy ff TDs to contact them by phone, email, and personally.
3. It tries every way possible to get any of them to vote against it or at least abstain.
4 it uses the local elections to teach ABFF to voters.
5. It looks into every bit of dirt going against cowen and anyone whom he supported. The gloves must come off.
6. The greens must be put under sustained pressure on every front. Every day. Idealistic young people must be encouraged to join the greens to vote it out of government. It is the most democratic of parties and every member in it for six months has a vote. They need to be signed up therefore by september at the latest..
Good post. Tactical voting needs to happen this time around. I am a Sinn Féiner as everyone knows but when I canvas my large extended family in Donegal most of them are SF 1st preference then usually FF. This time around I will be asking them to transfer to whatever candidate FG or Labour that beats FF. Sad thing is that many local Donegal FF people are really decent and therefore it is a pity that they have to suffer because of the government's behaviour. Still it might do FF a world of good to be on the opposition benches for a few elections. I am sure it would bring many new people to the party after it decontaminates itself from the bad aspects, (there were some good aspects as well), of the Ahern/Cowen years.
 

Question R24U

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Good post. Tactical voting needs to happen this time around. I am a Sinn Féiner as everyone knows but when I canvas my large extended family in Donegal most of them are SF 1st preference then usually FF. This time around I will be asking them to transfer to whatever candidate FG or Labour that beats FF. Sad thing is that many local Donegal FF people are really decent and therefore it is a pity that they have to suffer because of the government's behaviour. Still it might do FF a world of good to be on the opposition benches for a few elections. I am sure it would bring many new people to the party after it decontaminates itself from the bad aspects, (there were some good aspects as well), of the Ahern/Cowen years.
The danger is that people will once again punish ff in the locals and come back to them in the general. A two-election strategy is required by fg, sf and labour..
 

lostexpectation

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I mentioned this ages ago, but worth bringing up again. Before the 1997 UK general election, an organisation was set up to advise people who to vote for in order to get the Tories out.

They did a constituency-by-constituency list of each candidate most likely to defeat every Conservative MP or candidate, based on up to date poll data. Result? Labour's landslide of 1997, (for good or ill) from which the Tories are only now starting to recover.

I remember at the time that someone here (think it was Sidewinder) said they'd be interested in a similar project here to get rid of Fianna Fail.

More complicated with STV of course, but do-able, surely?
can anyone give an example of such, in a seat thats not too marginal not too safe
 

Question R24U

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can anyone give an example of such, in a seat thats not too marginal not too safe
In 2007, ff td ivor callaly got over 20% of the first preference but because sfa of the green and labour votes went to him, finian mcgrath doubled his final count vote from his first count tally and was elected. Callaly was the highest vote getting loser.
Obviously cyp brady would be in danger. As would second seats all over the country.
 

petervalhala

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But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself
You seem to forget that it was the people who have continuously elected FF to office

The current FF government is making the right decisions, and they aren't popular, but need to be made

What's your alternative? Rule by opinion poll and bankrupt the country??

The recent opinion in the SBP has shown that people have started to understand that difficult decisions need to be made, it's in their interests, and the interests of the country that we do take hard decisions now.
 

petervalhala

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well as part of the celebrations of the end of communism/dictatorships in Europe
BBC last night had a documentary on the Romanian leader Ceauşescu :D
Ireland is a parlimentary demoncracy, so what point are you trying to make?
 

petervalhala

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FF have been a disaster for this country both socially and economically and have deprived the Irish people of a truly prosperous , socially balanced and progressive society.
Are you mad, or blind, or both??

- Doubling the number of people at work

- Huge investment in neccessary infrastructure

- Pension reserve fund

- ** GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT **
 

Digout

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- Doubling the number of people at work
+ putting them out of work again.

- Huge investment in neccessary infrastructure
we still dont have a joined up transport system, our rail network is a laughing stock.

- Pension reserve fund
I laughed when I read this. No need to say anymore about it

- ** GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT **

Was made between the IRA, Unionists and the Brits. The main work was done by John Hume, Gerry Adams and David Trimble. FF made the tea and biscuits. Please note, FF voted against the Anglo Irish Agreement.
 


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