How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?

Question R24U

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well he's was marginal was he not, obviously unpopular you have to show how you can get a bigger target them him
The by-elections might be a better opportunity to explain to people how ABFF/NEGATIVE voting would work. Obviously ff will not win either but if the ff candidates top the poll and then slide off ie not even be the second candidate due to no transfers, the point would be made as to how it would apply in a general election scenario.
The marginals would be your target. It would not work in laois offaly or mayo. If you have any doubt about the effectiveness, compare alberts only election to bertie's first election . The difference was not the minor percentage change but the number of transfers.. If charlie was as transfer friendly as bertie, the 80's would have been Single Party government. Think also of mcdowell's fameous porter in 2002 - that would have hit transfers also.
 


Question R24U

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Its basicaly anyone who is a ff td but not a minister or junior minister.

If the government fails to fall on tuesday, then the next opportunity will be the european elections. Here positive voting could shorten the length of this government - voting o'keeffe rather than crowley could result in a by-election if he wins.
But the best opportunity is tuesday. Fine gael and labour people should pull out all the stops.
 

Question R24U

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The EU commissioner job is up this year. This has to go to a ff td eg dempsey, to reduce the ff numbers.

Fine gael also need to see who in ff would want an election ie dermot ahern. FG should try and drive wedge between him and the greens eg this row on decentralising the equality tribunal which he maintains is going ahead despite gormley's claims. All education cuts should highlighted also to put pressure on paul gogarty.
 

Gruffalo

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I am all for voting against FF but I do not believe in ABFF. Any campaign must also be against the Greens and any independents who support this Government. It is not enough just to knock FF out, we must also send a clear message that anyone who supports such corrupt Governments will also pay the price.
 

Question R24U

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I am all for voting against FF but I do not believe in ABFF. Any campaign must also be against the Greens and any independents who support this Government. It is not enough just to knock FF out, we must also send a clear message that anyone who supports such corrupt Governments will also pay the price.
Go for it. But so far the Greens have not faced any pressure bar tara and shannon. Education cuts are an open wound within the greens. Their ministers have collective cabinet responsibility for them.
JHR won't be doing a volte face but Lowry clearly takes the view that all bets are off.
 

west'sawake

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Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they are doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.

The only answer to this question is to return a single party FG Govt, so that all options of Labour, Greens, SF, coalescing with FF are gone.

This may sound unattainable, but as I said it is the only way one can be certain that the Maths dictate FF has to go into opposition. IN effect it means FG have to become the natural party of Govt that FF has become since it dropped it opposition to coalition. So that come the next election, Labour, the Greens, or whoever will make it clear they will go in with FG and no one else.

Imagine if you will a worst case scenario for FF. That they come back with only one seat in most constituences + the Ceann comhairle, and a second seat in Cowan's constituency, and maybe two or three others. Just say that they have 52-54 seats. Now imagine if Labour come back with 30-32, or in a worst case scenario, 25 and the Greens or SF 4-6.
Who will Labour do a deal with? Obviously it would get more influence and cabinet seats with a weakened FF than a stronger FG.. Suppose FG end up with 60 -70 seats? Would labour go in with a stronger FG or a weaker FF. My money is on the latter because poltics is about power not principle.

We may well have the irony of the party that gains the most seats, becoming the biggest party in the Dail, but still without power.

You heard it first here.
 
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Question R24U

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It appears that the government will bottle it for the fourth time this year - and spending cut less than four billion is not enough in my view. Bar kidnapping and assassination, Fine Gael, the greens or backbench ff tds with a grasp of reality need to bring this governmnent down tomorrow by any means necessary. Please.
 

ivnryn

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Could the five junior ministers who lose their jobs, be the key to bringing this government down (if it gets through tomorrow)?
All of them have to resign, but only some of them will be reappointed. It is good strategy as none of them know if they are one of the five, so will probably vote in favour on hope.
 

Question R24U

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All of them have to resign, but only some of them will be reappointed. It is good strategy as none of them know if they are one of the five, so will probably vote in favour on hope.
Now the five who go, will not their pension until they leave the dail. Hardly a great incentive to be loyal - could that be utilised?

Are all the ff tds solvent? I was looking at the register of interests and was struck by how many tds have shares, property here and abroad and other investments. All of which have taken a hammering. If any was to go bankrupt they must resign. Worth looking into?
 

Question R24U

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I am struck by the fact that Irish people do a lot of whining and as this site shows, ranting, but very little is done to change the single party state we are in. A fatalistic sense of 'sure they are all the same' masks the fact that for most of the last 20 years:
1 one party has appointed nearly all the judges and regulators.
2 one party has awarded the State's tenders and decided on how taxpayers money has been spent.
3 one cabinet minister has been married to a a professional lobbyist for commerce.
4 one party has stayed in power with 3 different smaller parties who emerged weaker.
5 one party has been able to use the economic cycle to coincide with its electoral cycle successfully for it - just not for the rest of us.

One would think that other parties would try and do something about it.
 

farnaby

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One would think that other parties would try and do something about it.
At the very least offer reform of our political institutions. We have a toothless senate, a spineless presidency, and an electoral system designed to look after ingrained local and lobby interests. FF benefits from all three.

The one thing I found interesting about Gay Mitchell's ranting on Today FM the other day concerning radio broadcast of oireachtas debates was that a clip of a senate debate about changing our system of multi-seat constituencies to single-seat was given by Today FM as an example of a boring debate that no member of the public would want to listen to! That is precisely the kind of debate I and i'm sure many on this site would want to be hear and for it to be acted on.

That said, Gay Mitchell has been putting booklets through Dublin doors explaining our current political system and institutions - a welcome initiative but far too reverential of a failing system.
 

Question R24U

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There are over 8,000 public sector workers in each constituency: does anyone think that their votes have any influence on PS workers getting paid on average 10k more than those in the private sector, being made permanent after a year, getting incremental pay increases and a guaranteed pension?
I am glad to see someone has noticed a link between our electoral system and the fact that ff has been out of power for just 2 years in the last 22 years and has returned to power after the last 6 elections..
 

offaly worker

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Now the five who go, will not their pension until they leave the dail. Hardly a great incentive to be loyal - could that be utilised?

Are all the ff tds solvent? I was looking at the register of interests and was struck by how many tds have shares, property here and abroad and other investments. All of which have taken a hammering. If any was to go bankrupt they must resign. Worth looking into?
Hopefully one day by peacefull revolution. Social, economical revolution.
Put them in the history books. :eek:
 

lostexpectation

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I am struck by the fact that Irish people do a lot of whining and as this site shows, ranting, but very little is done to change the single party state we are in. A fatalistic sense of 'sure they are all the same' masks the fact that for most of the last 20 years:
1 one party has appointed nearly all the judges and regulators.
2 one party has awarded the State's tenders and decided on how taxpayers money has been spent.
3 one cabinet minister has been married to a a professional lobbyist for commerce.
4 one party has stayed in power with 3 different smaller parties who emerged weaker.
5 one party has been able to use the economic cycle to coincide with its electoral cycle successfully for it - just not for the rest of us.

One would think that other parties would try and do something about it.
#

they would but


1 one party has appointed nearly all the judges and regulators.
2 one party has awarded the State's tenders and decided on how taxpayers money has been spent.
3 one cabinet minister has been married to a a professional lobbyist for commerce.
4 one party has stayed in power with 3 different smaller parties who emerged weaker.
5 one party has been able to use the economic cycle to coincide with its electoral cycle successfully for it - just not for the rest of us.
 

asset test

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Depressing reading here.

I have an awful feeling that FF have successfully pitted "us against them" ie private v public sector and have left us to slug it out. Non PS workers have no sympathy for the PS workers so the inadequacy of the present government is lost in the rage felt.

I also have a sneaky feeling that the longer this government limps along, the electorate will get used to everything that is thrown at them eventually, and when the elections come around again, FF will still get enough votes to get back into power somehow.

I am convinced of this. The electorate has not got the cojones to boot them out. There is always fear that the other crowd will make things worse. I for one hope that a lot of non core FF voters, and some of the cores will grow some liathroidi, but I have to say I still think FF will be in government for many years to come.

I really really hope I am wrong about that.
 

Marlowe

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Dec 20, 2008
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I am struck by the fact that Irish people do a lot of whining and as this site shows, ranting, but very little is done to change the single party state we are in. A fatalistic sense of 'sure they are all the same' masks the fact that for most of the last 20 years:
1 one party has appointed nearly all the judges and regulators.
2 one party has awarded the State's tenders and decided on how taxpayers money has been spent.
3 one cabinet minister has been married to a a professional lobbyist for commerce.
4 one party has stayed in power with 3 different smaller parties who emerged weaker.
5 one party has been able to use the economic cycle to coincide with its electoral cycle successfully for it - just not for the rest of us.

One would think that other parties would try and do something about it.
There is an old saying that 'Even when FF are out of power they are still in power'.
The only way to change this is by an incoming govt introducing genuine reform in the way all these appointments are made.
To bring in these reforms an alternative govt needs to be elected.
The only way to oust the present incumbents is to attack it's potentially weakest links i.e Independents and wavering backbenchers.
The oppertune time to do this will be after the next budget,when the really unpopular cuts will have to be introduced.
These potential weak links have been getting away almost scot free up to now;There has been no real pressure put on them as to why they are propping up an ailing govt.
The best way to crank up this pressure is by massive demonstrations outside their constituency offices BEFORE the budget is announced,but after it's most
unpalatible features have been leaked,which the govt will inevitably do to soften up the public.These TD's need to be interviewed by the media and made to answer the hard questions.If enough pressure is put on,some will eventually buckle.
But all this is not enough.There must be a positive campaign launched by the opposition between June and the Budget.
They must outline clearly and positively how and why they would do better.
Their policies must be clear and they must work day and night to sell these policies to the public.The last thing they need is to join the govt on a long holiday over the Summer.
Quite simply the opposition must deliver a real message of hope to a nation that is falling into despair.The govt have been quite rightly criticised upside down and inside out;It is time for the opposition to really show they can offer a brighter future.
And when they get there they must deliver;otherwise we will simply return to the one party state.
A democracy cannot function properly unless there are regular changes of govt;I sincerely hope the Irish people will finally learn this lesson.
 

Lloyd-Apjohn

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Oct 13, 2007
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Are far as I'm aware despite everything FF has done we still have free and fair elections and the only reason FF get back in all the time is because Irish people vote for them all the time. Our media have many faults we no one can say they don't expose all the stuff that goes on and no one can say they vote for FF innocent of what FF is.

There is a very simple non violent way of ending our one party state and it is to not vote FF.

Really it's that simply and if you can't vote for anyone else then just don't vote. Go to the pub on election day and stay there or go on a day trip away from your polling station or if you really must go vote then spoilt it.
 


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