How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?

Joined
Feb 27, 2009
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64
FF must go. FG are NO solution.

If you have a genuine reason for not voting FF and now vote FG, then you are part of the solution.
FG are not a solution. They are pretty much the same as FF, only not so obvious when it comes to corruption. They'll continue to privatise everything they can, like FF, until there are no public services left [apart from the 'loss making' ones which private companies won't touch, unless they are subsidised(bailed out in regular installments) by the taxpayer]
 


Seán Mac Stiofán

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Jul 5, 2006
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164
There are a lot of posts here baying for Fianna Fáil blood, but what's the alternative? I detest both Fine Gael and Labour. Not keen on the Green party or New Sinn Féin either. I don't think that any of those parties have actually clearly articulated an alternative solution to the crisis in public finances, let alone one that the two or three parties likely to replace Fianna Fáil would espouse as a joint strategy. Vote for what?

  • Fine Gael...builders and vested interests
  • Labour...unions and abortion
  • Sinn Féin..."equality"i.e. amnesty for illegal immigrants, incompetence in Government (see North)

I think what we need is for a minority to split or break free from Fianna Fáil. I fundamentally think most Fianna Fáilers are decent and motivated by higher purposes, but unfortunately are led by an arrogant clique whose reputations and careers are entirely based upon their grandfather's or great-grandfather's careers in the Civil War. If most Fianna Fáil cumainn broke away and perhaps joined up with certain disaffected ex-Sinn Féiners or indeed traditional Labour members, then perhaps a new party could be founded that would be naturally successful in Ireland. It would be socially conservative and economically populist with a firm commitment towards Irish re-unification. Essentially, the Fianna Fáil brand is dead and they need to jettison the dynasts that control that movement i.e. the Lenihans, Haugheys, McEllistrims etc.

The new party (perhaps The Republican Party) would be ideally suited to the character of the Irish people, reflecting their values in a manner that Fine Gael/Labour do not. This party would nationalize the banks, Eircom and Aer Lingus if necessary but also tackle the public sector unions and implement reforms.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
14
Fine Gael are a spent force. They lack a real front bench and Kenny is a desperate leader who is out of touch with the electorate. I'd agree with nationalizing the banks. I do think the nature of Ireland has changed dramatically in the last fifteen years. Personally, I don't really have an opinion on Irish re-unification. I think it is not a real issue for the majority of people living in the republic today. I would think that Ireland is becoming more socially liberal and this could be a reason for Enda Kenny's lack of popularity. He moved to the right when a lot of people moved from the right towards the centre and centre-left as a result of the actions of the US government adventures abroad.
 

DeathKnell

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Oct 29, 2008
Messages
441
No they doubled the number of people at work and brought long overdue peace to this country.

They are now responding to the ever changing world economic situation by making the hard (and unpopular) decisions to protect this country and its people, all of them, even the likes of you.

The naievity of your post makes me sad for you and your family. It is astounding to me how someone can either be so ignorant of history (in this case of the last 30 years) or choose to ignore it and instead profer bland excuses for those who have failed this country, indeed, raped it for their own advancement. This sort of drone like following of the party line give politics the name it deserves and allows the likes of Haughey, Lowry et al, to do whhat they do. Which is treat the people of this country like mugs.
 

cavok

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Apr 20, 2009
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www.politics.ie
Of course it is, we are one of the most open economies in the world and therefore benefit most when the world economy is performing well; and also suffer most when it doesn't - simple mathematics.
TONYs ?

It has to be
 

Question R24U

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
The process has now begun. A fg motion. Greens doing the right thing in the teeth or opposition by cowen. Government down to a majority of one plus two indos. At the doors ff are about as welcome as a mexican in a maternity ward.
 

Quiet Man

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Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
23
The process has now begun. A fg motion. Greens doing the right thing in the teeth or opposition by cowen. Government down to a majority of one plus two indos. At the doors ff are about as welcome as a mexican in a maternity ward.[/QUOTE]

racist perhaps :-(
 

Question R24U

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Messages
269
The process has now begun. A fg motion. Greens doing the right thing in the teeth or opposition by cowen. Government down to a majority of one plus two indos. At the doors, ff are about as welcome as a mexican in a maternity ward.[/QUOTE]

racist perhaps :-(
You have ether missed the news over the last few days, you are not familiar with the maternal instinct towards newborns, or have not canvassed with ff lately.

Anyho, ff is based on power which means getting its way. It has not done so tonight. Its government will not survive for too much longer. It may avoid the tough decisions required in the next budget ie cuts in PS pay and s/w cuts. Fg and labour can have a decent majority until 2015.

Will that be enough time to undo the damage of the last few years and more importantly ensure it can never happen again?
 

Quiet Man

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Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
23
You have ether missed the news over the last few days, you are not familiar with the maternal instinct towards newborns, or have not canvassed with ff lately.

Anyho, ff is based on power which means getting its way. It has not done so tonight. Its government will not survive for too much longer. It may avoid the tough decisions required in the next budget ie cuts in PS pay and s/w cuts. Fg and labour can have a decent majority until 2015.

Will that be enough time to undo the damage of the last few years and more importantly ensure it can never happen again?
spin you're answer all you want, you know exactly what I meant, many people have died from swine flu epidemic, majority if not all are mexican, yet many more nationalities have shown cases occurring and more by the hour, yet you chose to highlight the mexican race as a negative
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
There are a lot of posts here baying for Fianna Fáil blood, but what's the alternative? I detest both Fine Gael and Labour. Not keen on the Green party or New Sinn Féin either. I don't think that any of those parties have actually clearly articulated an alternative solution to the crisis in public finances, let alone one that the two or three parties likely to replace Fianna Fáil would espouse as a joint strategy. Vote for what?

  • Fine Gael...builders and vested interests
  • Labour...unions and abortion
  • Sinn Féin..."equality"i.e. amnesty for illegal immigrants, incompetence in Government (see North)

I think what we need is for a minority to split or break free from Fianna Fáil. I fundamentally think most Fianna Fáilers are decent and motivated by higher purposes, but unfortunately are led by an arrogant clique whose reputations and careers are entirely based upon their grandfather's or great-grandfather's careers in the Civil War. If most Fianna Fáil cumainn broke away and perhaps joined up with certain disaffected ex-Sinn Féiners or indeed traditional Labour members, then perhaps a new party could be founded that would be naturally successful in Ireland. It would be socially conservative and economically populist with a firm commitment towards Irish re-unification. Essentially, the Fianna Fáil brand is dead and they need to jettison the dynasts that control that movement i.e. the Lenihans, Haugheys, McEllistrims etc.

The new party (perhaps The Republican Party) would be ideally suited to the character of the Irish people, reflecting their values in a manner that Fine Gael/Labour do not. This party would nationalize the banks, Eircom and Aer Lingus if necessary but also tackle the public sector unions and implement reforms.
This is an interesting proposition. When ff loses the next election the soul searching will begin. Perhaps the asset stripping of ff values which was documented by kevin boland could be undone. Others will just try the old trick of shameless opportunistic opposition. If that fails and ff faces a second term in opposition - the split could then occur. A more meaningfull idealogical division could exist in irish politics.
 

Question R24U

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269
The process has now begun. A fg motion. Greens doing the right thing in the teeth or opposition by cowen. Government down to a majority of one plus two indos. At the doors ff are about as welcome as a mexican in a maternity ward.
Its getting worse for Cowen's Cronies. FG on 38% with a torylike lead of 17%. George Lee will give the party backbone. On those figures a fg led government without labour is possible. The drubbing for ff could be far far worse than anticipated. The crash of 1929 led to the switch to ff from fg - could the current economic depression have the reverse effect?

The counting of the votes on the 6th of June will indeed be D-day.
 

Question R24U

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Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.
To those fresh from victory in local elections I urge you not to get carried away. You still much implement all of the above to make a real difference.
 

Gruffalo

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Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
498
To those fresh from victory in local elections I urge you not to get carried away. You still much implement all of the above to make a real difference.
What victory? FF are still running the country so there is no real change.
 

Question R24U

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
What victory? FF are still running the country so there is no real change.
Indeed, but more worryingly is that they are running the country with the knowledge that they are going out of power. Every state appointment needs to be observed very closely.
 

Question R24U

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
The state we are in:
- civil servants are continuing to get incremental pay rises despite deflation, the recession and fiscal imbalance.
- only 19 of 148 judges have taken a voluntary pay cut.
- 1 in 10 children have literacy problems.
- unemployment is over 400,000 but there is no sense of crisis.
- the two green ministers have had next to zero influence outside of their own departments.

Symptoms of a one party State?
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.
I appears that Leo V on Sam Smyth's show has tapped into this. While his comparison to the nazi's is a tad OTT, his reference to deFFification is interesting one and shows insight that beating FF in the next general election is not enough.
 

netron

Active member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
225
I appears that Leo V on Sam Smyth's show has tapped into this. While his comparison to the nazi's is a tad OTT, his reference to deFFification is interesting one and shows insight that beating FF in the next general election is not enough.
deFFication is already happening amongst the electorate in my view.

just take the local election results, and the area where i hail from - cork north central.

ok, its only a small example, but knowing the area growing up , i was shocked at the result:

Cork North Central results

This area used to be an FF bastion. Solid FF that didnt budge for decades.

I remember canvassing as a wee lad for the WP, and it was a hard hard slog going up against the FF machine.

Now look at it. Over 50% voting for leftwing parties.
 

load1234

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Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
2
State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987

The economy grew on debt from foreign and Irish banks, there was also large handouts from Europe, most of the wealth went to foreigners, like foreign multinational companies. The government cleverly transfered the debts to the people and companies in Ireland. From 1987 there has been no change in the economy once debt has been removed.
 

Question R24U

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
'Nama is the only show in town'.

Quote from today's rte's report of the news that the Supreme Court agreed to sit during their vacation to hear carroll's appeal to continue the protection of the Court to his companies. Groupthink is dangerous thing and we appear to exhibit it in spades. Nama is a Fianna Fail/banks idea. The Greens are trying to add on a few bells but basically the mentality behind it is all will be well once the building industry gets going again.
 


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