How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?



Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
This may need to be broadened into how can the Tweedledum/Tweedledee/Tweedle Public sector party system can be ended?

A Fine Gael poster: http://www.politics.ie/elections/76434-do-fine-gael-actually-want-government-fall-4.html#post1959136
There is a chance that the government will be brought down with the NAMA vote.
FG should not be doing any deals with single TDs to gain parish pump votes.
I think they want to stay clear of the Greens too as they have been tarnished as FFers rightly or wrongly.

Politically it would be wrong for FG to try to force things before the next budget which will more than likely bring the govt down after Christmas.
At this stage there will be still time to reverse NAMA.
FG have suggested the idea of a "good bank" to Nama's bad bank - the best thing about the plan is its name. I have little doubt that if the Greens pulled the plug between now and the 16th September, that Fine Gael would find a mechanism (eg free vote, pairings, not allowing its 7 bank shareholder TDs vote, Tallaght stragety mark II) to ensure that NAMA goes through.

They also appear quite happy with a Bord Snip inspired Budget to be brought in by FF - now there's a surprise.



Changing from FF to FG after a 22 year gap (the late 94 to mid 97 was merely a continutation of policy) remains a good thing of itself - it is a shame that they don't appear to believe it themselves.

(as for Labour - they are enjoying their holidays)
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.
I thought I would bump this for the last time, given that I need to take a break from the depressing vista that is Irish politics. Nama will be voted through, as will Lisbon. Then the Greens will probably vote themselves out. A november election, will result in FG winning its 6th post general election term. The schoolteacher from mayo who has remarkably few achievements to his name after 35 years a TD will replace the awful solicitor with few achievements to his name after 25 years a TD.
In a radical move ff will chose between having its 3rd qualified barrister, its successive solicitor or its second teacher to lead it. As it has always done it will come back after the next election to appoint the regulators, judges, head of sipo,rte and press complaints boards etc. The circle will continue.

How will the 2016 commemoration be held? A country which will still be partitioned, in the hock to the ecb and foreign bondholders, having its crucial decisions made by a foreign power in Brussels will hold a sham military parade while most people of sense who have already emigrated will look on from overseas and think what might have been instead of the 20 years of hardship, 20 Years of struggling, 20 years of development, 10 years of self-destruction, 15 years of achievement, 7 years of blowing it and 8 Years of misery.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
40
I thought I would bump this for the last time, given that I need to take a break from the depressing vista that is Irish politics. Nama will be voted through, as will Lisbon. Then the Greens will probably vote themselves out. A november election, will result in FG winning its 6th post general election term. The schoolteacher from mayo who has remarkably few achievements to his name after 35 years a TD will replace the awful solicitor with few achievements to his name after 25 years a TD.
In a radical move ff will chose between having its 3rd qualified barrister, its successive solicitor or its second teacher to lead it. As it has always done it will come back after the next election to appoint the regulators, judges, head of sipo,rte and press complaints boards etc. The circle will continue.

How will the 2016 commemoration be held? A country which will still be partitioned, in the hock to the ecb and foreign bondholders, having its crucial decisions made by a foreign power in Brussels will hold a sham military parade while most people of sense who have already emigrated will look on from overseas and think what might have been instead of the 20 years of hardship, 20 Years of struggling, 20 years of development, 10 years of self-destruction, 15 years of achievement, 7 years of blowing it and 8 Years of misery.
Can anyone give me any reason to be more optimistic that this ff cabal will be gone soon and for good?
 

Tiernanator

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
345
FF needs to be removed from power, and its leaders put on trial for treason.
Well the only way this will happen is that if all of us in the opposition transfer across the board to each other. Until this happens FF will continue to win and win and win.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
Well the only way this will happen is that if all of us in the opposition transfer across the board to each other. Until this happens FF will continue to win and win and win.
Absolutely. Every voter must be asked to vote down the full ballot excluding fianna fail. Every other party must agree to do this. Every canvasser must ask every voter to do this, with a sample ballot paper if necessary.

That nama got through with relative ease, shows that we truely live in a single party state. Bar only 30 months from the last 22.5 years fianna fail have been in power. That is too long.

It would be good for all parties that ff goes into opposition. It would be a triumph for democracy he ff could lose elections in a row. It has not happened since 1927.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
Worth a bump after today's threecard trick by Lenny - Promissary Notes et al Even if the faith in the Greens seem naive.
Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.
 

harpsman

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
327
i suppose if the other parties came up with a pact and only put up unified candidates in each constituency.
either that or some of the moronic 40-45% of voters who vote for them dont continue to do so
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
Bumped. Only the last paragraph is relevant now. Well done to all concerned. FG ran a great campaign, labour provided another populist alternative, sf a more radical one, but above all, Congrats and thanks to the 24% of the electorate who abandoned FF and held them accountable for their woeful record in government.

Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.
 


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