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How Culpable Were Ordinary Irish People In Enabling British Imperialism?

General Urko

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I am from Galway City, which back in the day was home to The Connaught Rangers, who were quite simply known as the most Loyal Unit in The British Army! I'm a huge soccer fan and while, it was traditionally 'The Garrison Game', Galway never really had much of a soccer tradition, why, because our Garrison was constantly out in India acting the right royal bollex!
Also The Claddagh, the traditional native heart of Galway City, provided a lot of Royal Navy lads. Indeed when WW1 ended the women in the area went daft because, they would no longer be getting the King's Schilling!
Also, a lot of Black and Tan war criminals came from Connaught Ranger backgrounds, who could not settle here post WW1, probably due to PTSS!
On the pen pusher side, the civil service in India, was so full of Irish people, that the British Establishment were getting a bit worried!
Mind you on the flip side the Cronwellian Siege of Galway set a economic spiral of depression in the area which really lasted for 300 years!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Galway

And of course the famine disproportionately affecting all along the West Coast was genocide enabled if not directly caused by The British Establishment!

So my question is how culpable were ordinary Irish Folk in the spread of one of the greatest pure evils of all time - British Colonialism?
 


General Urko

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Sorry, I'm a bit tired so I posted this in Justice rather than where it should be history, please change, Mods!
 

Roberto Jordan

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I am from Galway City, which back in the day was home to The Connaught Rangers, who were quite simply known as the most Loyal Unit in The British Army! I'm a huge soccer fan and while, it was traditionally 'The Garrison Game', Galway never really had much of a soccer tradition, why, because our Garrison was constantly out in India acting the right royal bollex!
Also The Claddagh, the traditional native heart of Galway City, provided a lot of Royal Navy lads. Indeed when WW1 ended the women in the area went daft because, they would no longer be getting the King's Schilling!
Also, a lot of Black and Tan war criminals came from Connaught Ranger backgrounds, who could not settle here post WW1, probably due to PTSS!
On the pen pusher side, the civil service in India, was so full of Irish people, that the British Establishment were getting a bit worried!
Mind you on the flip side the Cronwellian Siege of Galway set a economic spiral of depression in the area which really lasted for 300 years!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Galway

And of course the famine disproportionately affecting all along the West Coast was genocide enabled if not directly caused by The British Establishment!

So my question is how culpable were ordinary Irish Folk in the spread of one of the greatest pure evils of all time - British Colonialism?

Considering it is surrounded, particularly to the west/ north-west by some of the least culturally anglo-fied parts of the island Galway city was a clear anomaly in attitude and behaviors of its denizens.
In documented historic terms this extended up to and including the easter rising and war of independence as you have noted.
In considering this one must clealry differentiate what happened in , for example, Maam , Cornamona or Ballyconneely from Galway city. Hence suffering of Connermara in the famine or the continued existance of language as a living form in south connemara and up around Cornamona is irrelevant to the city of the tribes

Your post has reminded me I owe a poster here some links to work I have read on the topic. In that instance ( I cannot recall the topic) I used the historic trend you note as a jumping off point to note that ( In my opinion only clearly) unlike Limerick , where it is provincial & somewhat hidden or disguised ( think Garryowen RFC cloaking themselves in "working mans game" BS when it is only 15 or 20 years since their members stopped making smart remarks about players professions) , or Cork , where it is large, real but not mainstream ( think Simon Coveney vs. the Cork hurlers ( who draw large support from the urban area) or O'Donovan brothers ( accepting the latter are products or rural west cork), Galway City has a distinct D4-in-the-west strand in its social strata & life which propagates more widely 7 deeply than the other provincial cities or indeed Dublin itself.
While this is probably sustained and exacerbated by the Cornwall like colonization of Connemara by wealthy dubliners holiday homes and the galway races etc. it is also, in my view, the echo or expression of the descendants that made Galway city , at the time of the rising, a unionist town.

And , point of order, while you note soccer has a historic presence in galway city but not at the level of , for example, some of the smaller provincial garrison towns, Galway hurling and football has not , historically, benefitted too much from players from the urban area. Only with the expansion of the city and emergence of Salthill etc. has this started to change
 
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Ex celt

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I am from Galway City, which back in the day was home to The Connaught Rangers, who were quite simply known as the most Loyal Unit in The British Army! I'm a huge soccer fan and while, it was traditionally 'The Garrison Game', Galway never really had much of a soccer tradition, why, because our Garrison was constantly out in India acting the right royal bollex!
Also The Claddagh, the traditional native heart of Galway City, provided a lot of Royal Navy lads. Indeed when WW1 ended the women in the area went daft because, they would no longer be getting the King's Schilling!
Also, a lot of Black and Tan war criminals came from Connaught Ranger backgrounds, who could not settle here post WW1, probably due to PTSS!
On the pen pusher side, the civil service in India, was so full of Irish people, that the British Establishment were getting a bit worried!
Mind you on the flip side the Cronwellian Siege of Galway set a economic spiral of depression in the area which really lasted for 300 years!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Galway

And of course the famine disproportionately affecting all along the West Coast was genocide enabled if not directly caused by The British Establishment!

So my question is how culpable were ordinary Irish Folk in the spread of one of the greatest pure evils of all time - British Colonialism?
British Empire was a good thing. It stamped out the Slave Trade,brought culture and the english language to Eire and introduced all the top sports throughout the world. It was an Empire based largely on trade and most of the world benefitted from same. The good people of Galway clearly recognised this. It must be remembered that Eire was not being oppressed in any way when it was decided by the exponent of pure evil,sf/ira,to start a campaign of murder and criminality that continues today.
 

Ex celt

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I am from Galway City, which back in the day was home to The Connaught Rangers, who were quite simply known as the most Loyal Unit in The British Army! I'm a huge soccer fan and while, it was traditionally 'The Garrison Game', Galway never really had much of a soccer tradition, why, because our Garrison was constantly out in India acting the right royal bollex!
Also The Claddagh, the traditional native heart of Galway City, provided a lot of Royal Navy lads. Indeed when WW1 ended the women in the area went daft because, they would no longer be getting the King's Schilling!
Also, a lot of Black and Tan war criminals came from Connaught Ranger backgrounds, who could not settle here post WW1, probably due to PTSS!
On the pen pusher side, the civil service in India, was so full of Irish people, that the British Establishment were getting a bit worried!
Mind you on the flip side the Cronwellian Siege of Galway set a economic spiral of depression in the area which really lasted for 300 years!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Galway

And of course the famine disproportionately affecting all along the West Coast was genocide enabled if not directly caused by The British Establishment!

So my question is how culpable were ordinary Irish Folk in the spread of one of the greatest pure evils of all time - British Colonialism?
British Empire was a good thing. It stamped out the Slave Trade,brought culture and the english language to Eire and introduced all the top sports throughout the world. It was an Empire based largely on trade and most of the world benefitted from same. The good people of Galway clearly recognised this. It must be remembered that Eire was not being oppressed in any way when it was decided by the exponent of pure evil,sf/ira,to start a campaign of murder and criminality that continues today.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
There were always some tensions between the Galway merchant class and the working class of Galway and this to some extent broke down across Unionist lines and Nationalist lines.

I recall reading of the submissions and pleas made by Galway merchants to the court of Elizabeth I for extra naval patrols to curb the activities of pirates from the local septs (among them Granuaile) who liked to toll the trade ships going in and out of Galway Bay.

Grace O'Malley was placed under sentence of death by the court which led to one of the most amazing meetings in Anglo Irish history. On hearing of the sentence from the court Ms O'Malley true to form sailed a galley around Ireland through seas patrolled by the Elizabethan navy (any one of whom on capturing her could have hung her from the yardarm) up to Greenwich Palace and presented a petition to the court for an audience.

It is in the records at Greenwich that Elizabeth granted an audience and was so taken with the sheer chutzpah shown by this Irish pirate queen that she granted Granuaile a pardon upon which Granuaile sailed back around to Galway and promptly went back to piracy.

But the point is that the Galway merchants sought the protection of the Crown from the depredations of the rural and coastal septs and I suspect that strand may have survived down the centuries from the 15th/16th centuries to the United Irishmen, Land War era and onwards.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Always been fascinated by the mirror image in history of those two women, Elizabeth of England and Grace O'Malley, two very different cultures and both confronted in their parallel lifespans of the problem of how to lead in an era when leadership by women was pretty much unthinkable.

I like to think that Elizabeth recognised she was looking in some ways at a mirror image of herself in O'Malley and this is what led to the pardon. There are a few anecdotes which survive of the audience in Greenwich which would indicate that this may have been the case.

Either way it would have gone down like a cup of warm sick to the merchants of Galway.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Yes I would agree that the Zoo seems the correct place for this one as it is I think a clear attempt at provocation.

If it was intended as some kind of paen towards unionism then it is far from a palpable hit.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Could have been a much better thread if related to the culpability of Irish people today in the criminality of its political and patronage class.

And that might have been better seated in Culture and Community.
 

Cruimh

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Yes I would agree that the Zoo seems the correct place for this one as it is I think a clear attempt at provocation.

If it was intended as some kind of paen towards unionism then it is far from a palpable hit.
It isn't as if there is anything new in it. Plenty of other threads discuss the British Empire, and while although the focus is on Galway, the same arguments come into play.

Toman is attention seeking.

His Iron Curtain thread, on the other hand, has some merit.
 

PBP voter

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If all the Irishmen in the RIC just refused to recognize British rule it would have made it virtually impossible for the brits. They would have needed military thugs to enforce the law. Would have cost them a fortune.

Look how much damage Collins was able to do with the help of Irishmen within the RIC.
 

McTell

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No
The Tribes of Galway were Norman families who interbred. So it has been someone's colony from the first.

I have no hang-ups about our modest role in colonialism. I'll take my lead from the church on this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas
 

GDPR

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Somewhere in this confused OP there is an actual point and I am feeling sufficiently well disposed today to help Urko out.

The question is not whether Irish people assisted in Britains colonial projects - they manifestly did, in the same way as the Scots also were soldiers and administrators of empire. This is non contentious.

More interestingly, could Ireland have been said to have benefited by Britains imperialism, in the long term sense if not the short?

All of Europe is only as successful as it currently is (and that is very successful in the eyes of most of the world) because it exploited its neighbours both far and near.
 

sgtharper

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There are 45m slaves in the world, 1.2m trafficked into Europe and hundreds in Ireland.
you're nit-picking and you know it. he's talking about the Atlantic Slave Trade from West Africa to the Americas which following the abolition of slavery in Britain and then the Empire was ruthlessly suppressed and destroyed chiefly by the Africa Squadron of the Royal Navy, at no small cost in ships, men and treasure either. Slavery was also suppressed in many other places, Zanzibar and the Far East, Borneo for example. Do some reading on the White Rajahs of Sarawak, the Brookes.
 

Ex celt

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Somewhere in this confused OP there is an actual point and I am feeling sufficiently well disposed today to help Urko out.

The question is not whether Irish people assisted in Britains colonial projects - they manifestly did, in the same way as the Scots also were soldiers and administrators of empire. This is non contentious.

More interestingly, could Ireland have been said to have benefited by Britains imperialism, in the long term sense if not the short?

All of Europe is only as successful as it currently is (and that is very successful in the eyes of most of the world) because it exploited its neighbours both far and near.
This presupposes that Ireland and Scotland were somehow distinct which is clearly a fallacy.Both were part of the Great Empire Project and the spread of civilization throughout the world.It is however fair to point out that most of the nefarious goings on in the Empire were perpetrated by Irish Imperialists.The Amritsar Massacre was the fault of two irish men.Casement's rogering of the natives cast a cloud over anglo-congo relations.There are numerous examples of this type of behaviour which the English constituent of the empire would never have engaged in.
 


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