How do people feel about the EU today?

MPB

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This morning we are digesting the news that our "friends" in the EU have decided that they are not prepared to lend to us at a reasonable and affordable interest rate.

They have also decided that we are to be the first country in the history of an IMF assisted bailout, not to be allowed to writedown a portion of debt owed.

In our case we have been prevented from allowing insolvent Private Banks negotiate a writedown of debt owed to other larger EU Banks.

So much for being at the heart of Europe.

What do people think of the EU this morning? Have they changed their mind again on the Lisbon Treaty? How do they feel about the euro?

I will lay my cards on the table.

I have never thought that euro membership was a good idea for Ireland. we were at an immediate disadvantage from day 1, in so much as we were the only country in the euro with a land border to a competing currency. This competing currency also happened to be our biggest export market and we happened to be its largest import market.

No other country in the euro had such conditions.

Should we now start planning for our exit from the euro?
 


Run_to_da_hills

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Up and coming fascist organization, began where Hitler left off.

People should learn from their history books.

 

eoghanacht

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Aindriu

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I voted No to the Lisbon Treaty both times. I was disgusted by the attitude of the EU towards us at the time and even more so with all our cowardly politicians who not only allowed the second vote but stated even more lies about it.

I voted in the original referendum for entry into the - as then - European Economic Community. At NO time did I ever intend my vote to be taken as a request to join a United Federal States of Europe which it subsequently was.

The EU is a broken organisation headed by power crazy, undemocratic beuracrats and I for one will be happy to see it fall.
 

Collios

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I e-mailed deRossa today telling him how let down we are by this patethic action. We're good europeans as long as we sit in the corner and do what we're told, but as sooon as we start having problems, they don't want to know. Debt for equity swops is the only way forward but the germans don't want this.
 

Legacy

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I will also lay my cards on the table. I never thought this European project was a good idea. I consistently voted no in all Referendum. It's cold comfort to know that I was right all along :-(

Exit the Union now
 

Clanrickard

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I voted No to the Lisbon Treaty both times. I was disgusted by the attitude of the EU towards us at the time and even more so with all our cowardly politicians who not only allowed the second vote but stated even more lies about it.

I voted in the original referendum for entry into the - as then - European Economic Community. At NO time did I ever intend my vote to be taken as a request to join a United Federal States of Europe which it subsequently was.

The EU is a broken organisation headed by power crazy, undemocratic beuracrats and I for one will be happy to see it fall.
Amen brother. Time to plan the exit. This crowd don't care about us so lets not waste anymore time sucking up to them.
 

DownTheSwanny

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DEATH NOTICE

Ireland 1922 - 2010 (after a terminal illness bravely borne) predeceased by her founding fathers Arthur (Griffith) and Michael(Collins), survived by her 4.3 million grieving children. Removal from Cowen and Lenihans funeral home to the church of the IMF and burial immediately after in the European Union cemetery.
Family Flowers only please, All donations to the IMF , c/o Dominique Strauss-Kahn, European central bank, Frankfurt, Germany


Get the Swastikas up boys, we'll be needing them for a few decades.

 

johnfás

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I think that the incumbent leadership of the EU are inept and that they are utterly mad if they think this is going to stabilise the Eurozone. European stockmarkets up, banking shares gaining and the currency doing OK. Where have we seen this before? This will last a couple of weeks and then we're back to square one. The market in Irish Government bonds remains at over 9% in the secondary market precisely because the market still thinks we will default at some stage.

However, whether I am now against the EU? No I am not. No more than our inept political leadership at Ireland makes me anti-Ireland. What I am against is incompetence and parochial politicking - which is what we are seeing here. Not even this move serves Germany in the long run - just kicks it to touch for a while... maybe 18 months or two years... at which stage no doubt we may have a new Commission, a new Chancellor in Germany, a new Government in Ireland and a new head of the ECB - somebody else's problem. Just becomes your's and mine until then.
 

goosebump

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This morning we are digesting the news that our "friends" in the EU have decided that they are not prepared to lend to us at a reasonable and affordable interest rate.

They have also decided that we are to be the first country in the history of an IMF assisted bailout, not to be allowed to writedown a portion of debt owed.

In our case we have been prevented from allowing insolvent Private Banks negotiate a writedown of debt owed to other larger EU Banks.

So much for being at the heart of Europe.

What do people think of the EU this morning? Have they changed their mind again on the Lisbon Treaty? How do they feel about the euro?

I will lay my cards on the table.

I have never thought that euro membership was a good idea for Ireland. we were at an immediate disadvantage from day 1, in so much as we were the only country in the euro with a land border to a competing currency. This competing currency also happened to be our biggest export market and we happened to be its largest import market.

No other country in the euro had such conditions.

Should we now start planning for our exit from the euro?
How do you feel about your bullsh1t notion from late last week that everybody wanted to burn the senior bondholders except the Irish Government?

I suppose the ECB, the IMF, the EU Commission, the UK Goverment and the Swedish Government are all in on the conspiracy, are they?
 

goosebump

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I think that the incumbent leadership of the EU are inept and that they are utterly mad if they think this is going to stabilise the Eurozone. European stockmarkets up, banking shares gaining and the currency doing OK. Where have we seen this before? This will last a couple of weeks and then we're back to square one. The market in Irish Government bonds remains at over 9% in the secondary market precisely because the market still thinks we will default at some stage.

I suppose if you say a few prayers and wish really, really hard it might not work. You may as well try.
 

Expatriot

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The EU does not really exist now anyway, it is just national interests that are taking over. That is the opposite of what the EU project is about. We are only throwing stones in a glass house though, we shafted the rest of them with our surprise bank guarantee in the middle of the night that almost crashed the UK system. We were we right smart arses when it suited us to be. What goes around comes around. We are a selfish and inward looking country. From neutrality to the guarantee we got out what we put in, a few smelly fish we could not catch ourselves is all we gave the EU.
 

Expatriot

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How do you feel about your bullsh1t notion from late last week that everybody wanted to burn the senior bondholders except the Irish Government?

I suppose the ECB, the IMF, the EU Commission, the UK Goverment and the Swedish Government are all in on the conspiracy, are they?
You are right, the senior bond holders clearly rank higher than Ireland did, they sacrificed us to maintain stability in EU wide bank funding. We had no cards left in the end that anyone took seriously. We got a very bad deal, but there probably was no better one to be had.
 

Squire Allworthy

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The problem with the EU is the structures. You now have a collection of National politicians who can't see further than their own border.

The problem in Europe always has been the Nation States. The problem in the UK regions is the Nation State.

In Europe we now have the politics of Lilliput and Blefuscu.

Little politicians afraid to take a risk, afraid to lead, people who have failed to act in the collective interest, people who can't see further than the end of their own snout.
 

Keith-M

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I feel no different about he EU than I did on the day that we voted for the second time on Lisbon. However I feel much more contempt for those idiots who voted "Yes" on Lisbon II based on on the threats /promises of our gombeen politicians. Their collective stupidity/cowardice has played as big a part on putting us where we are today than the developers and bankers.
 

TradCat

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It really is cold comfort for No voters. Even the spoof Coir posters that were so funny at the time don't look so funny now

 

Thac0man

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Better. EU pressure has and is making this government and oppostion face up to reality. That is something we, the Irish electorate, have not been able to do make them do. We have mucked things up ourselves and need reform. I am not going to spurn the lifeguard who keeps us afloat while we learn how to swim properly.

We have kept our corporate tax rate and can get ourselves into a position over the five years whereby we can negotiate a lower rate on the remainder we draw down. In this timeframe Germany is booming, the Euro is lowering. With EU exports being more compeditive as a result we are primed to get proper economic growth started - if we so choose.

5.8% is high, true. But a realisitic plan for growth is possible with stability. And that is what the next government has to focus on. Growth equals prosperity. So over 5 years we should be getting better off, which should compensate a little at least for higher tax.

The alternative to that is stagnation, and with 5.8% interest variable that is unthinkable. We have to move forward. We can't default and retreat to Tir Na Nog. We are part of a much greater global economy now, with or without the EU. We would become a high cost Albania if we defaulted.

A lowering Euro will work to our advantage and alieviate the expected US dollar devaluation due with Obamas 600bn Federal rescue plan. The fact that we are a US gateway to the EU, and to an extent visa versa, may help us too. Operating within the EU and in that context we are better off, no doubt.

There are a few reasons to criticise the EU, but most of them are selfish ones. Lisbon is proving more flexable than critics have claimed. We should also bare in mind Black friday January 1993. No one came to our aid then.

Irish punt joins ERM casualties - News - The Independent

Back then we were all in Europe together too. Germany bailed out Denmark against speculators and a few other big nations bailed out near neighbours. NO ONE came to Irelands aid, no one. Not even the UK who took some bad decisions themselves in trying to fight off speculators. One advantage of the evolving EU since 1993 is that we are not adrift in that bear pit any more.

We squandered the opportunity for growth that EU stability and backing gave us. We looked at the open markets and went for easy credit instead.
 


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