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How do you feel about Europe?


Drogheda445

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Feb 13, 2012
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No, this isn't a thread about the EU, it about the continent, and I think its important to make that distinction. I suppose as an island nation we've always, like Britain, felt a sense of distinction from our neighbours on the Mainland. Perhaps its simply because we don't share our languages with any on the mainland or that we have generally looked to our diaspora on other continents, particularly North America, for cultural links - the phrase "closer to Boston than Berlin" springs to mind.

I think in spite of increasing dissatisfaction with the EU, we should attempt to forge a sense of Europeanness within this continent, and indeed within Ireland itself. This sense of continental communality is not new, pan-Africanism and pan-South Americanism (or Latin America in some cases) are both both becoming increasingly common in their respective continents, both politically and culturally.

But that's only my opinion. I can understand how many would turn away from the idea of a European identity given the state the continent is in at this moment in time. But I do think that we should try and distinguish between the political aspect of Europe and the cultural aspect of it, the fact that we belong to a continent with huge diversity and which, despite its bloody, brutal treatment of peoples in other parts of the world, is a cultural powerhouse that has shaped the world we live in today.

Apologies if this post sounds too flowery, but I do think that we need to make an effort to emphasise Europe and our place within it. So, do you see yourself as a European and how do you regard Europe in general?
 

Ren84

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How do you feel about Europe?

Feking great band.
 

Watcher2

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Definitely. There is a massive difference between the political and the people. This is true everywhere as most people are generally good where as politicians generally are not.
 

fuque

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Apr 7, 2011
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Are there weapons big enough??........
 
S

simeongrimes

How and why should we forge a Europen identity. The best thing about Europe is its wonderful diversity. The oppressive uniformism of the EU is killing the relaxed friendly Europe that had emerged since the US, USSR and China took over as the worlds military powers. Most of the cities worth visiting are in Europe. Most of the great classical music, art and literature comes from Europe and comes down through history like a great discourse.

Who always screwed up Europe? Not the painters or the writers. It was the political people. The revolutionarys the reactionaries and the opportunists. Now they are in charge of everything and they have created a monster. Europe will still be Europle when the EU is dead an gone.
 

Drogheda445

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Feb 13, 2012
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How and why should we forge a Europen identity. The best thing about Europe is its wonderful diversity. The oppressive uniformism of the EU is killing the relaxed friendly Europe that had emerged since the US, USSR and China took over as the worlds military powers. Most of the cities worth visiting are in Europe. Most of the great classical music, art and literature comes from Europe and comes down through history like a great discourse.

Who always screwed up Europe? Not the painters or the writers. It was the political people. The revolutionarys the reactionaries and the opportunists. Now they are in charge of everything and they have created a monster. Europe will still be Europle when the EU is dead an gone.
An identity can easily acknowledge this diversity, as is happening in places like Northern Ireland at the moment. I'm not saying Europe should give up its plethora of cultures for one giant conglomerate, just that we acknowledge it and embrace the fact that we are Europeans. Not in a nationalist sort of way, but in an acknowledgement of our differences and what we share in common. A bit like how the Swiss view themselves, despite featuring three seemingly distinct cultures in one country.
 
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Which bit of Europe?

Remove Europe's Christian heritage from the equation and there is next to nothing that uniquely identifies people as 'European'. Attempts to construct a 'European identity' are forced and artificial. I have little or nothing in common with a Greek or a Hungarian person culturally, less certainly than with an Australian or an American. So a European identity must necessarily rely upon the political institutions of the EU - without it all talk of being 'European' is a nonsense.
 

raymond01

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Which bit of Europe?

Remove Europe's Christian heritage from the equation and there is next to nothing that uniquely identifies people as 'European'. A.
Is Christianity especially European. I always thought Christ was born and bred in the Middle East. Can you point me to the White Jebus bible. Europe had a dark Pagan heritage which was replaced with a imported really perverse form of Christianity as a heritage, Catholic or Prod variety.
 

Ren84

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Jan 14, 2011
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50,016
Which bit of Europe?

Remove Europe's Christian heritage from the equation and there is next to nothing that uniquely identifies people as 'European'. Attempts to construct a 'European identity' are forced and artificial. I have little or nothing in common with a Greek or a Hungarian person culturally, less certainly than with an Australian or an American. So a European identity must necessarily rely upon the political institutions of the EU - without it all talk of being 'European' is a nonsense.
Culture is a shared feature of Europe. The renaissance, enlightment, the Catholic Church, Roman Empire, Latin language (perhaps our common European native tongue), not to mention Europe at one time or another conquering most of the known world.
 

Ren84

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Is Christianity especially European. I always thought Christ was born and bred in the Middle East. Can you point me to the White Jebus bible.
The Church of Rome was crucial in the development and spread of Christianity worldwide. If it wasn't for Europeans the religion would likely be reminiscent of Zoroastrianism and various ME mystic sects today, perhaps even extinct.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
Which bit of Europe?

Remove Europe's Christian heritage from the equation and there is next to nothing that uniquely identifies people as 'European'. Attempts to construct a 'European identity' are forced and artificial. I have little or nothing in common with a Greek or a Hungarian person culturally, less certainly than with an Australian or an American. So a European identity must necessarily rely upon the political institutions of the EU - without it all talk of being 'European' is a nonsense.
All national identities are artificial. I have far more in common with people of the same profession anywhere in the world than I do with most of the people who live on my street.

There is no such thing as a 'natural' national identity, all of them were forcefully constructed by political power at some point. All of them are artificial.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Which bit of Europe?

Remove Europe's Christian heritage from the equation and there is next to nothing that uniquely identifies people as 'European'. Attempts to construct a 'European identity' are forced and artificial. I have little or nothing in common with a Greek or a Hungarian person culturally, less certainly than with an Australian or an American. So a European identity must necessarily rely upon the political institutions of the EU - without it all talk of being 'European' is a nonsense.
That's the same heritage line you were trying to flog in regard to Irish culture. And that was a "Friday night special" too, if I recall correctly. I'm beginning to have doubts about you, boyo.
 

odlum

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May 29, 2007
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Fianna Fáil has always been the pro Europe party defending our country's interests on the continent against the big powers - as recently as 2010 it was Fianna Fáil government that got the largest transfer of cash ever to this country by the EU. Even more than Albert got. But it was no coincidence we hit the jackpot at the end of 2010 - it was astute Fianna Fáil policy and governance that led to that success and the recovery now underway
 

seabhcan

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I didn't say Christianity started in Europe, nor that it is unique to Europe, I meant that Europe's Christian heritage is pretty much all that binds us to them historically.
"For in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's futures. And we are all mortal."
 
Joined
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Culture is a shared feature of Europe. The renaissance, enlightment, the Catholic Church, Roman Empire, Latin language (perhaps our common European native tongue), not to mention Europe at one time or another conquering most of the known world.
My point was that Christianity was the only common element binding us culturally and historically, and there is a concerted effort to obliterate that cultural heritage now anyway. The renaissance and enlightenment (so called) were not a product of Ireland. The Romans weren't in Ireland either. If Latin is in any way a binding element, it is because of the Catholic Church alone. And it by-passes the entire eastern half of Europe.
 
Joined
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All national identities are artificial. I have far more in common with people of the same profession anywhere in the world than I do with most of the people who live on my street.

There is no such thing as a 'natural' national identity, all of them were forcefully constructed by political power at some point. All of them are artificial.
So it can only be a political construct, otherwise it it does not exist...
 

seabhcan

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My point was that Christianity was the only common element binding us culturally and historically, and there is a concerted effort to obliterate that cultural heritage now anyway. The renaissance and enlightenment (so called) were not a product of Ireland. The Romans weren't in Ireland either. If Latin is in any way a binding element, it is because of the Catholic Church alone. And it by-passes the entire eastern half of Europe.
True enough. The Roman Empire was as much a North African empire as it was a South Europe one. It included Egypt, and excluded Germany.
 
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