How dogmatic are you?

Has an argument on this forum ever persuaded you to 'change sides'?


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david

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Feb 6, 2003
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Have you ever, as a result of reading posts on this forum, changed your mind on a topic of serious political interest? By that, I mean, been swayed into taking up a contrary position?

Given that some people use forceful arguments and facts whereas others merely have an axe to grind, is this forum useful in shaping and directing your principles?
 


cain1798

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Aug 6, 2003
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418
While I was leaning to changing my mind on the issue anyway, the debate about 'No Free Speech for Fascists' encouraged me to abandon that position. I also found the debate on the hotel bed tax to be a useful one that has caused me to think again on the issue.

I think people on politics.ie can be swayed by arguments on 'positions' but I doubt any of us are ever going to seriously question our principles on the basis of something we see on an internet bulletin board.
 

Gladstone

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Mar 10, 2005
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420
I've never questioned my ideological beleifs but I have changed my position on a number of specific issues, and become more uncertan on others.
 

joemomma

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Jul 25, 2003
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I used to think that black was black, but I am now happy to acknowledge that black is in fact white :)

I'm not saying that it couldn't, but I can't think of a specific example where debate on this forum has led me to change my mind on a particular issue. However, there is an inherent value in hearing different positions on an issue, whether or not this changes your own mind.

The bin tax is an example of an issue on which I have heard a huge number of conflicting and overlapping positions, and as a result have grown to appreciate the issue is even more complex than I would have acknowledged at first. I haven't moved terribly far from my initial position, but I have had to consider this position from a greater number of angles.
 

Minister3

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Jan 12, 2005
Messages
145
It hasn't forced me to change sides or principle but from reading a few intelligent replies it has let me see things from another perspective.Anyone who isn't prepared to be open to change after reading well informed content isn't going far in life--
 

Trojanhorse

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Jan 12, 2005
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Actually I have to say there hasn't really been any argument on this website that has changed my opinion but I am willing to accept other people opinions
 

Trojanhorse

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Jan 12, 2005
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Oh right back at ya!!!
well Shane i could say I have to listen to you.........but i'm too nice for that!!!!!!!!
:wink: :wink: :wink:
 

XRoot

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Jun 4, 2004
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381
I changed mine on the referendum of last year regarding citizenship.

I had planned to vote in favour, then read and re-read the arguments on these fora and changed my mind.

As it turned out, I was unable to vote and it would have made no difference in the grand scheme of things.
 

Zhukov

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Oct 6, 2004
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Quite often I simply don't have a view on a topic and I find reading the arguments helps me to develop a position. The main reason I use this site is to hear different arguments and hopefully arrive at a good view from them. During the US election campaign I was called a "flip-flopper", which is fairly accurate. :)
 

TheBanned

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Nov 4, 2004
Messages
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I think that one's views are largely determined from a standpoint of self-interest.
Students have only a notional stake in society so can afford to embrace very altruistic viewpoints on how, for example, much tax should be raised and how spending should be allocated.
 

DOD

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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
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cain1798 said:
While I was leaning to changing my mind on the issue anyway, the debate about 'No Free Speech for Fascists' encouraged me to abandon that position.
What was your initial position and what was your subsequent one. I must say I am not a believer in the no free speech for Fascists slogan. This is both because we should not stoop to their level and because allowing them to air their views will show people hopefully how unworthy of support they are. This is of course, provided that those who oppose them don't become arrogant and complacent.

One issue (mind you it was with a friend of mine and not on politics.ie) that I almost changed my mind on, was euthanasia. I was strongly in favour before hand, but my friend made some great arguments based on medical ethics etc. I still think I'd be pro-Euthanasia, but not to the same scale.

Certainly I wouldn't change my mind in general. Actually this board strengthens my views in that it exposes me to a lot of people that share my beliefs, whereas in college, I often have to put up with self righteous moralising that makes me feel guilt. If you throw an angle into an argument, it is very easy to test a person's conscience. Howver when you hear your own view reinforced by someone as articulate as say Cain1798 (he may look like a blueshirt, but he's a hardcore republican boy :wink: ), you realise that these things are legitimately open to interpretation.

There are some very intelligent posters here on all sides and views certainly get tested sometimes.
 

Zhukov

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Oct 6, 2004
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TertiumQuid said:
Zhukov said:
During the US election campaign I was called a "flip-flopper", which is fairly accurate. :)
Oh my God, are you John Kerry?
Well I couldn't commit to making a rash statement like that, but let's just say I've had my share of botox. :wink:
 

stringjack

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TheBanned said:
I think that one's views are largely determined from a standpoint of self-interest.
Students have only a notional stake in society so can afford to embrace very altruistic viewpoints on how, for example, much tax should be raised and how spending should be allocated.
Fascinating - and revealing. :wink:

It is your position that views are 'determined' - this implies that one need not take responsibility for one's views, they simply arise as a natural result of one's position. Hence, one need never question one's views or re-examine them in light of someone else's questions.

Secondly, views are determined by 'self-interest'. Thus, all moral conflicts are reduced to conflicts of interest and moral arguments are simply veils cast over interests.

Finally, on the students question - one might argue they are in the best position to come to unbiased views, since they are independent of the self-interest pressure that distorts everyone else's views. Right?
 

TheBanned

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stringjack said:
It is your position that views are 'determined' - this implies that one need not take responsibility for one's views, they simply arise as a natural result of one's position. Hence, one need never question one's views or re-examine them in light of someone else's questions.?
I said 'largely' determined. However people are very adept and reconciling what's right with what happens to be in their own self-interest.
It's how people live with themselves and we do it all the time in small ways and large. Also, as the person questioning your viewpoint is likely to be arguing from a partial position you can generally dismiss his argument as biased.

stringjack said:
Secondly, views are determined by 'self-interest'. Thus, all moral conflicts are reduced to conflicts of interest and moral arguments are simply veils cast over interests.?
well self-interest on a larger scale can apply to the tribe or the species and what is more moral than acting in the interests of your kith and kin.

stringjack said:
Finally, on the students question - one might argue they are in the best position to come to unbiased views, since they are independent of the self-interest pressure that distort everyone else's views. Right?
Well do students practise what they preach?
 

stringjack

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TheBanned said:
It's how people live with themselves and we do it all the time in small ways and large. Also, as the person questioning your viewpoint is likely to be arguing from a partial position you can generally dismiss his argument as biased.
I didn't say I disagreed with you, exactly. :wink: However, if you just assume from the start that no arguments are worth listening to...
 

TheBanned

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stringjack said:
TheBanned said:
It's how people live with themselves and we do it all the time in small ways and large. Also, as the person questioning your viewpoint is likely to be arguing from a partial position you can generally dismiss his argument as biased.
I didn't say I disagreed with you, exactly. :wink: However, if you just assume from the start that no arguments are worth listening to...
:(
 

TertiumQuid

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Sep 21, 2004
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TheBanned said:
It's how people live with themselves and we do it all the time in small ways and large. Also, as the person questioning your viewpoint is likely to be arguing from a partial position you can generally dismiss his argument as biased.
Ad Hominem.
 

cleareyed

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Apr 14, 2004
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There are some people here who have expert knowledge of aspects of politics. I would listen to them. Most ppl I think are pushing a party political position and should be treated as you would a canvasser at your front door.
 

BOULD THADY

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Feb 24, 2005
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Quote from Stringjack:
"Finally, on the students question - one might argue they are in the best position to come to unbiased views, since they are independent of the self-interest pressure that distort everyone else's views. Right?"

Stringjack, I was a student in UCD in the sixties ( yes, I am giving away my age) and embraced all the radical ideas that were present at the time. I belive that an openess to new ideas is vital in a person's intellectual development. However, experience in life teaches you things that you cannot learn as a student. Perhaps Churchill summed it up with his statement " Anybody with a heart is a socialist in his twenties. Anybody with a head is a capitalist in his forties."
 


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