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How far will the democratic will of the people tend towards fascism before we cop on.

james toney

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
15,949
It is no secret that democracy is capable of tyranny. So how are we getting on with our 'governance by the people, for the people, of the people'?

Personally, I fear we have got quite fascist. Here's how. I've organised my thoughts under some headings put forward by George Orwell relating to the characteristic markings of fascism.

1. Curtailment of individual and minority liberties.
So much of the discourse in our mainstream media and sites like this is about curtailing the liberties of those on the dole, of the public sector, and anyone else but themselves. In addition, there is a significant anti-immigrant sentiment and the whole 'foreigners taking our jobs' thing. The rights of those individuals who make up any of these groups, and in particular, anyone outside one's own group are barely considered. The whole anti-fascist sentiment of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is very very much in decline, unfortunately.

2. Abolition of private values and substitution of State life and public values (patriotism).
First, let me say that it is clear that the values currently in the ascendency in state life and public life, stem from market priorities. ie. the consciousness that we need to survive in a market-lead economy (entailing that business and entertainment priorities must dominate) and that business owners must be kept happy (who promote values of materialism and consumerism as well as a conservative respect for the status quo and establishment.). These are the values promulgated, and there is room for little else in public life. Again, this thinking is shouted out in the majority of the pages of our mainstream media and indeed, web sites like this one. Democracy in action.

3. External imposition of discipline
Where does this 'external imposition of discipline' stem from in our democracy? Actually it stems from sub-groups making noise about how other sub-groups must 'take the pain' and suffer (in the deluded hope that they will thus be somewhat spared themselves). So, the private sectors shouts to impose discipline on the public sector, everyone shouts to impose discipline on the un-employed. And so on. Even within the private sector, people shout about the need for discipline, in the belief that they have already suffered and will be spared subsequent impositions if others take more. Again, our mainstream media and websites like this work to promulgate the noise made.

4. Prevalence of mass-values and mass-mentality
Enough said. Baaa.

5. Falsification of intellectual activity under state pressure.
Well, look at the ESRI for starters. Look at the selective statistics and bias they trotted out both during and post the great Irish establishment property scam. But it goes further than the ESRI. It is everywhere - even our universities, who must survive in a market-lead economy and demonstrate values of materialism and consumerism and respect for the status quo in their funding applications for example. Or look at journalism - and the guff they come out with under state and institutional pressure. But the democratic will seems to have little problem about this state of affairs. Why is this? (Personally I think the reason runs along the following lines - http://www.politics.ie/forum/political-reform/180795-whips-new-inquisition.html)

....... Finally - in addition to the points above, what really brings this tendency home to me is the insular and nationalistic strain currently apparent in the attitude we are currently taking to Germany and Europe and other 'outsiders' whom apparently are to blame for all our troubles. Again, you see this thinking all over the mainstream media and p.ie. This can come from nothing but a sentimental self regard for one's own people and nation that has so often been at the root of fascism.

I mean can you imagine if we had loaned a load of our own hard earned savings and pension funds to Germany and Europe; they had ************************************ up their own economies through their own stupidity; and then they turned around and said to us, "actually, we're not paying you back your money because it is your own fault for lending it to us!". We'd go bloody mental! Anyway, the whole thing is taking a turn for the worse. What is wrong with us. Why are we not 'kings and philosophers', capable of ruling ourselves? The BLUDGEONING of the people, by the people, for the people' as Oscar Wilde said.
What would George Orwell think of these fascists and anti semites?
Don't change your sig;...it's very apt...and a good reminder to all.

 


caledhel

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
2,047
Democracy can descend into a torrid ochlocracy which, in turn, sees a militarisation of society to reestablish law and order. The thing is to make an instruction in civics widely and freely available. If this is done then democracy is secured. If not then common sense becomes a common nonsense.

The movement to strip civic culture of instruction (through the use of tropes of "patriarchy", tradition etc.) denies people the learning necessary to defend themselves from the histrionics of bullies, cultists and demagogues.

The trust natural to family units and established communities is not appropriate in less stable environments with unstable people. Know this or be lost. Wise as a serpent and as innocent as a lamb remember.

Ignorance makes one easy prey which is why it's promoted by the carrion eaters of society.

If you want to have access to the breadth of what really informs our civilisation's understanding - whether explicitly or implicitly - then check out this lecture series on philosophy from the old days.

If you're confused and nothing makes much sense then it's a resource to help you out. Life isn't impossible.
 

james toney

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
15,949
It is no secret that democracy is capable of tyranny. So how are we getting on with our 'governance by the people, for the people, of the people'?

Personally, I fear we have got quite fascist. Here's how. I've organised my thoughts under some headings put forward by George Orwell relating to the characteristic markings of fascism.

1. Curtailment of individual and minority liberties.
So much of the discourse in our mainstream media and sites like this is about curtailing the liberties of those on the dole, of the public sector, and anyone else but themselves. In addition, there is a significant anti-immigrant sentiment and the whole 'foreigners taking our jobs' thing. The rights of those individuals who make up any of these groups, and in particular, anyone outside one's own group are barely considered. The whole anti-fascist sentiment of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is very very much in decline, unfortunately.

2. Abolition of private values and substitution of State life and public values (patriotism).
First, let me say that it is clear that the values currently in the ascendency in state life and public life, stem from market priorities. ie. the consciousness that we need to survive in a market-lead economy (entailing that business and entertainment priorities must dominate) and that business owners must be kept happy (who promote values of materialism and consumerism as well as a conservative respect for the status quo and establishment.). These are the values promulgated, and there is room for little else in public life. Again, this thinking is shouted out in the majority of the pages of our mainstream media and indeed, web sites like this one. Democracy in action.

3. External imposition of discipline
Where does this 'external imposition of discipline' stem from in our democracy? Actually it stems from sub-groups making noise about how other sub-groups must 'take the pain' and suffer (in the deluded hope that they will thus be somewhat spared themselves). So, the private sectors shouts to impose discipline on the public sector, everyone shouts to impose discipline on the un-employed. And so on. Even within the private sector, people shout about the need for discipline, in the belief that they have already suffered and will be spared subsequent impositions if others take more. Again, our mainstream media and websites like this work to promulgate the noise made.

4. Prevalence of mass-values and mass-mentality
Enough said. Baaa.

5. Falsification of intellectual activity under state pressure.
Well, look at the ESRI for starters. Look at the selective statistics and bias they trotted out both during and post the great Irish establishment property scam. But it goes further than the ESRI. It is everywhere - even our universities, who must survive in a market-lead economy and demonstrate values of materialism and consumerism and respect for the status quo in their funding applications for example. Or look at journalism - and the guff they come out with under state and institutional pressure. But the democratic will seems to have little problem about this state of affairs. Why is this? (Personally I think the reason runs along the following lines - http://www.politics.ie/forum/political-reform/180795-whips-new-inquisition.html)

....... Finally - in addition to the points above, what really brings this tendency home to me is the insular and nationalistic strain currently apparent in the attitude we are currently taking to Germany and Europe and other 'outsiders' whom apparently are to blame for all our troubles. Again, you see this thinking all over the mainstream media and p.ie. This can come from nothing but a sentimental self regard for one's own people and nation that has so often been at the root of fascism.

I mean can you imagine if we had loaned a load of our own hard earned savings and pension funds to Germany and Europe; they had ************************************ up their own economies through their own stupidity; and then they turned around and said to us, "actually, we're not paying you back your money because it is your own fault for lending it to us!". We'd go bloody mental! Anyway, the whole thing is taking a turn for the worse. What is wrong with us. Why are we not 'kings and philosophers', capable of ruling ourselves? The BLUDGEONING of the people, by the people, for the people' as Oscar Wilde said.
Stop being so self centered and in love with yourself roc/speedfreak (And other accounts)......what kind of racism and fascism do you agree with?
 

Golah veNekhar

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,232
Stop being so self centered and in love with yourself roc/speedfreak (And other accounts)......what kind of racism and fascism do you agree with?
They have a soft spot for Liberman which says it all. Silly Southerners love to go on about how corrupt the Free State- it is not corrupt at all by the standards of the rest of the world- and virtue signalers whether middle Palestinian Jews or middle class Westerners love to go on about how corrupt Bibi is- Bibi is dodgy as f@ck, however Bibi is not anywhere near as dodgy as Liberman.

The fact that Gantz and his chums having been willing to embrace Liberman when they could have embraced indigenous citizens of the Zionist state to get their majority in the Knesset apologizing for their crap against them in the last extremely recent lol election tells it's own story.
 


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