How fine is the line between savagery and civilization ?

cyberianpan

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Here's some anecdotal evidence:

Mob burns Venezuelan man alive over $5 as justice fails
Dozens of men loitering on the sidewalk next to a supermarket kicked and punched the 42-year-old until he was bloodied and semi-conscious. After all, they had been robbed of cell phones, wallets and motorcycles over the years, and thought Bernal had a criminal's face.

Then a stooped, white-haired man trailing behind told them he'd been mugged.

The mob went through Bernal's pockets and handed a wad of bills to the old man: The equivalent of $5. They doused Bernal's head and chest in gasoline and flicked a lighter. And they stood back as he burned alive.
Doctor hacked to death by machete-wielding attackers in suspected Islamist attack in Bangladesh  | Daily Mail Online
Machete-wielding assailants hacked to death a village doctor near Dhaka
Mir Sanaur Rahman, 55, was killed on the spot by attackers on a motorbike
The homeopathic doctor and his companion, identified as Saifuzzaman, 45, suffered serious wounds
Boko Haram: children among villagers burned to death in Nigeria attack | World news | The Guardian
More than 80 killed after fighters from the Islamist group razed the village of Dalori in northern Nigeria, shooting people and setting fire to homes
Here Are 10 Examples Of Donald Trump Being Racist
He refused to condemn the white supremacists who are campaigning for him

Three times in a row on Feb. 28, Trump sidestepped opportunities to renounce white nationalist and former KKK leader David Duke,
Does Vladimir Putin kill journalists? | PunditFact

ISIS burn woman alive for refusing 'extreme sex act', reveals UN official | Daily Mail Online

North Korea confirms anti-aircraft gun execution of defence chief | Daily Mail Online

[video=youtube;DSSAfBsPzsI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSSAfBsPzsI[/video]

Here is some longer scale empirical evidence

The Better Angels of our Nature | Steven Pinker
We’ve all had the experience of reading about a bloody war or shocking crime and asking, “What is the world coming to?” But we seldom ask, “How bad was the world in the past?” In this startling new book, the bestselling cognitive scientist Steven Pinker shows that the world of the past was much worse.
Sure there has been improvement ... but past performance is no guarantee of future performance

1) How fine is the line ?
2) Are things worsening or at dangerous risk of worsening ?
3) If (2), how might that be counteracted ?

cYp
 


silverharp

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2 meals is the standard answer right?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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1) How fine is the line ?
There is no line. Savagery masquerades as civilization in western countries. The examples of blatant and obvious savagery you have highlighted are just examples which cannot be ignored or denied. There is a much more subtle and stealthy savagery going on, not visible to the naked eye. It's called capitalism and the illusion of democracy. Beneath the superficial appearance of civilised society you'll find selfishness, greed, duplicity and ruthlessness. Manipulation, deceit, corruption, fakery ...it's all present and happening.

2) Are things worsening or at dangerous risk of worsening ?
War and death is human nature taken to it's logical conclusion. Human nature left unchecked and unmonitored shall inevitably lead to self destruction. IMO the sooner that happens the better. People are generally scum, and regardless of class, race, religion, sexuality or any other social variable.

3) If (2), how might that be counteracted ?
No attempt to should be made to counteract humanities self demise. If anything, it should be assisted and hastened by every and all means possible. Controversial? No, logical and rational.
 

Kevin Parlon

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How fine is the line?
As fine as silk. Civilization isn't a given. It's not the natural order. Bloody chaos is the natural order. Civilization is a sandcastle in the surf that requires constant re-enforcement. Do your part.
 

gerhard dengler

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I'd agree that civilisation is literally only a veneer for what human behaviour is. It's a precious veneer.
At least in the animal kingdom, they kill each other usually out of necessity for things like hunger.

A friend of mine served with United Nations in the Former Yugoslavia Republic during the 1991-1995 Balkan Wars.
His accounts of the atrocities committed there were horrific both for the content of what he described and also for the way in which relationships of tolerance - lasting many years - literally disintegrated overnight apparently.

The account of what one lifelong neighbour did to several neighbouring families was like something out of medieval times.
 

sadcitizen

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I remember reading when I was a kid that lions will sometimes kill cubs that aren't their own when they take over a pride, and thinking "wow, how savage". Then a few years ago I watched a ream of crime documentaries and was surprised at how common it seemed for step-parents to abuse and murder their new step-children. I looked into it and apparently it isn't just dramatization by documentary makers, step-children are more frequently abused and murdered than non-step kids, by their guardian. The Cinderella Effect, they call it. It struck me that even living in safe, developed societies and with all of our legal and societal safeguards, weird/unacceptable animalistic instincts still seem to affect behaviour.

I'd give it a few days with no food before we're all beating each other to death for cans of beans, even Lidl beans. You only have to look at the development of recent wars to see how quickly society can transform, eg Yugoslav Wars
 

Belfastdan

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My own experiences , the troubles aside, left me in no doubt of the viciousness and unpredictability of human beings. To be truthful I would be more wary of people now than I was back at the height of the conflict. Then I had some idea of what to look out for.
 

cyberianpan

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I am off the opinion that 90+% of humanity are neithet good nor bad...sadly, they are easily led astray

Cyp
 

derryman

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Is this the "civilisation" which believes it is a human right to attack mutilitate and kill other defenceless unborn human life?
If that is the bench mark then I would say there is no visible line.
 

Mitsui2

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RasherHash

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Just to repeat on Trump (who I can't stand) he wasn't the only one to meet a kkk leader, both Clinton and Obama played footsie with a major kkk guy.

Why this is constantly allowed to go unnoticed always amazes me.
 

Prester Jim

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If I could be an atheist for a week I would most probably to an extreme eco-fascist at the end of it.

There is no line. Savagery masquerades as civilization in western countries. The examples of blatant and obvious savagery you have highlighted are just examples which cannot be ignored or denied. There is a much more subtle and stealthy savagery going on, not visible to the naked eye. It's called capitalism and the illusion of democracy. Beneath the superficial appearance of civilised society you'll find selfishness, greed, duplicity and ruthlessness. Manipulation, deceit, corruption, fakery ...it's all present and happening.



War and death is human nature taken to it's logical conclusion. Human nature left unchecked and unmonitored shall inevitably lead to self destruction. IMO the sooner that happens the better. People are generally scum, and regardless of class, race, religion, sexuality or any other social variable.



No attempt to should be made to counteract humanities self demise. If anything, it should be assisted and hastened by every and all means possible. Controversial? No, logical and rational.
 

Half Nelson

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Watcher2

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For the question in the thread title, I was expecting some semblance of civilization but all you posted was savagery. There appears to be a very thick line. Why are you calling it thin?
 

sadcitizen

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For the question in the thread title, I was expecting some semblance of civilization but all you posted was savagery. There appears to be a very thick line. Why are you calling it thin?
That's the question. How close are the civilised to the sort of savagery in OP.
 

Watcher2

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That's the question. How close are the civilised to the sort of savagery in OP.
I think they are very far apart. There may be a lot of savagery in the world but there is also a lot of good. I suppose it depends on your definition of savagery. General Urko thinks a little pushing and shoving....handbag stuff essentially..... is savagery. I think the linked pieces in the OP are more to savage than the clip of the tinkers with the laptop. But maybe that's just me.

I see civility every day. Nothing major mind, but many neighbourly and kind acts every day. I have met some very charitable people too. Not long ago I had the great privilege to meet a couple of Dublin lads who, over the past few years, have raised about 800K for various charitable causes around the world. These guys give up stacks of their time to do this. I also lend some of my time in work to the company's charitable foundation and the amount of work, good will and effort given to chariatable organisations, and received from same around the wo5rld is very heartening.

So you could easily wallow in the savagery. By nature we sink to the lowest common denominator, but if you step back and think about it, you will surely see there is quite an amount of good in the world too. Which is there more of, I would like to think goodness, but its Friday and I'm in a good mood.
 


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