How green are electric cars??

McTell

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No
Read this the other day as I'm in the market for sparks-on-wheels.

Elec is 20% better than petrol. Or, it takes 80% of the energy to make one. Over a "lifecycle".


' the same report estimated that over its whole lifecycle, the electric car would still be responsible for 80% of the emissions of the petrol car. "


https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/25/how-green-are-electric-cars


Sounds like a great deal, biiiig tax savings for a kinda-half-dacent reduction in CO2. If you're seriously green, keep riding that bike.
 


Roll_On

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The real saving in transport based emissions will be an increasingly urbanising population and improving public transport in urban areas. Electric cars will fill in the gaps. We'll need to go nuclear soon enough anyway, or buy French nuclear via an undersea cable and hope they always give us a good deal.
 

Volatire

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The real saving in transport based emissions will be an increasingly urbanising population and improving public transport in urban areas. Electric cars will fill in the gaps. We'll need to go nuclear soon enough anyway, or buy French nuclear via an undersea cable and hope they always give us a good deal.
hope?

fücking idiot
 

Turbinator

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About as green as wind farms, biofuels and dams - all steadily destroying species and habitats across the globe thanx to the green wash brigade!!
 

SPN

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The real saving in transport based emissions will be bicycles an increasingly urbanising population and improving public transport in urban areas. Electric cars will fill in the gaps.
Bicycles, bicycles, and more bicycles.

Just like it was 100 years ago.

And even 50 years ago.



We'll need to go nuclear soon enough anyway, or buy French nuclear via an undersea cable and hope they always give us a good deal.
Nuclear is too expensive, and creates humungous amounts of long life toxic waste for which there is still no credible solution.

Anyways, you don't need a Nule to get around on a bicycle.
 

Watcher2

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Read this the other day as I'm in the market for sparks-on-wheels.

Elec is 20% better than petrol. Or, it takes 80% of the energy to make one. Over a "lifecycle".


' the same report estimated that over its whole lifecycle, the electric car would still be responsible for 80% of the emissions of the petrol car. "


https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/25/how-green-are-electric-cars


Sounds like a great deal, biiiig tax savings for a kinda-half-dacent reduction in CO2. If you're seriously green, keep riding that bike.
Manufacture of batteries is apparently horrendously "dirty". I've also heard (no battery expert) that the batteries are basically useless after about 8 years which will effectively render the car worthless.

Look into it.
 

Watcher2

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Bicycles, bicycles, and more bicycles.

Just like it was 100 years ago.

And even 50 years ago.





Nuclear is too expensive, and creates humungous amounts of long life toxic waste for which there is still no credible solution.

Anyways, you don't need a Nule to get around on a bicycle.
Bicycles?

Bbwwwahahahaha
 

SPN

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Manufacture of batteries is apparently horrendously "dirty". I've also heard (no battery expert) that the batteries are basically useless after about 8 years which will effectively render the car worthless.

Look into it.
Nah, you swap out the battery for a new one (if you haven't already done so).

Car keeps going.
 

Watcher2

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Nah, you swap out the battery for a new one (if you haven't already done so).

Car keeps going.
I believe it's not so easy. I wish it was. I do believe that once they solve the battery capacity problem, electric will take off. Would be cool if you could pull into an outlet when your battery goes next to flat, take it out and replace it with a "full" battery.
 

tsarbomb

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It depends on how they're made. Most carbon emissions are caused through making cars and not the actual driving of them.
 

former wesleyan

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Lots of African children digging for cobalt.
 

SPN

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I believe it's not so easy. I wish it was. I do believe that once they solve the battery capacity problem, electric will take off. Would be cool if you could pull into an outlet when your battery goes next to flat, take it out and replace it with a "full" battery.
It is easy. The materials in the battery are recyclable, so manufacturers will take them as "trade ins" so they can re-use the very expensive and very rare materials for new batteries.

There is no "capacity problem".

Nissan have a technology ready to roll out for quick battery swaps in the equivalent of petrol stations but there is no demand for it.
 

Peppermint

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I like the idea of electric cars, once the power issue is resolved, batteries are still the big problem.
But make batteries smaller and more efficient and we will all be driving electric within a decade.
But, even without improvement, there's a lot to be said for electric cars..
They are so simple in comparison to your average petrol engine. There is no oil required, no carburetor, no fan belt, no spark plugs etc.. You basically have a power source (battery) and an electric motor. Then some controlling electronics between the 2. They are a slightly more complicated hair dryer, or battery operated drill..
 

Watcher2

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It is easy. The materials in the battery are recyclable, so manufacturers will take them as "trade ins" so they can re-use the very expensive and very rare materials for new batteries.

There is no "capacity problem".

Nissan have a technology ready to roll out for quick battery swaps in the equivalent of petrol stations but there is no demand for it.
That has to be bollox. It would solve the distance problem where consume s apparently fear limited range. I sniff bollox from your post.
 

Roll_On

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Bicycles, bicycles, and more bicycles.

Just like it was 100 years ago.

And even 50 years ago.





Nuclear is too expensive, and creates humungous amounts of long life toxic waste for which there is still no credible solution.

Anyways, you don't need a Nule to get around on a bicycle.
More bicycles are part of the solution but a modern economy will require electric metros, high speed rail and electric buses.

Third and fourth generation reactors are very clean. And besides its not like we have a choice, we can't burn stuff for power anymore and renewables alone can't meet our needs.
 

SPN

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That has to be bollox. It would solve the distance problem where consume s apparently fear limited range. I sniff bollox from your post.
Most people do not need anywhere close to the range of a current EV for >90% of their normal driving.

For those who do need a longer range then there are other options, such as Hybrids and plug in Hybrids.

The ultimate "range extender" being a second car with a fossil fuel engine, but these can be hired on a daily basis.


But ultimately, Climate Change Mitigation is going to require major changes in how we organise our transport.

As I said above, think bicycles.
 

Peppermint

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That has to be bollox. It would solve the distance problem where consume s apparently fear limited range. I sniff bollox from your post.
Every car has a range of how long it can go before it needs a "refill" of it's required energy source. Some gas guzzlers can barely make a 100miles before needing a refill, but they are special, most will make 500 plus, I can't find any table showing full tank to miles traveled? But I'm sure the evidence is out there some where?
Anyhow the range of electric cars will be irrelevant, if they can get a refill, just like a petrol car..
 

SPN

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More bicycles are part of the solution but a modern economy will require electric metros, high speed rail and electric buses.
Not at all.

If you are trying to recreate the fossil fuel era, then these things might look attractive.

But when energy has to be managed more carefully, as it will be in the very near future, those sorts of ideas will prove to be vapourware.



Third and fourth generation reactors are very clean. And besides its not like we have a choice, we can't burn stuff for power anymore and renewables alone can't meet our needs.
You are correct.

We don't have a choice.

Using less - dramatically less - is the only option on the table.

If renewables are all we have, then using less is the only way to go.

Just cutting out the waste will pretty much make renewables more than viable.


But Nukes will never be viable.

Waaaaaaay too expensive.
 

Malbekh

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I believe it's not so easy. I wish it was. I do believe that once they solve the battery capacity problem, electric will take off. Would be cool if you could pull into an outlet when your battery goes next to flat, take it out and replace it with a "full" battery.
It is easy. The materials in the battery are recyclable, so manufacturers will take them as "trade ins" so they can re-use the very expensive and very rare materials for new batteries.

There is no "capacity problem".

Nissan have a technology ready to roll out for quick battery swaps in the equivalent of petrol stations but there is no demand for it.
That has to be bollox. It would solve the distance problem where consume s apparently fear limited range. I sniff bollox from your post.
Most people do not need anywhere close to the range of a current EV for >90% of their normal driving.

For those who do need a longer range then there are other options, such as Hybrids and plug in Hybrids.

The ultimate "range extender" being a second car with a fossil fuel engine, but these can be hired on a daily basis.


But ultimately, Climate Change Mitigation is going to require major changes in how we organise our transport.

As I said above, think bicycles.
Battery life?

The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period
So that's ~150,000km of driving guaranteed in 2017. By 2030 you will never have to replace your car, unless you choose to do so.
 


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