How is Sean Quinn getting on ?

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stanley

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If we are going to have a new beginning, anewbeginning, then we have to move on. You cannot squeeze blood from a stone as the saying goes; Sean Quinn has been brought to his knees and will be lucky to end up owning 5% of the company.

What people are forgetting is, that this was a man who started from nothing and against all the odds, and through sheer bloody hard work built a business which became a massive employer. He was the leaven in the cake which lifted a lot of businesses in a region which had been depressed for generations.

Granted, he did succumb to greed to a certain extent, but his greed produced jobs which put bread on the tables of many families.

Sean Fitzpatrick took him hook, line and sinker waving the 'I'm the owner of the money tree' flag. Fitzpatrick 'personally' employed no one in the same sense as Sean Quinn. The money he 'borrowed' from his 'own bank' went towards propping up his 'own bank', and the rest was speculated abroad. Bubble economics.

Quinn's companies dug sand out of the ground, added value to it through employment and sold the resulting products to the markets right across Europe.

I won't comment on your last point if you don't mind.

Quinn found it easy to borrow money and that was his real business, he then bought assets but too many were highly speculative so then he bought cashflow.

Someone else could have got the sand out of the ground and others could have run/started the other businesses and done it more successfully than him, his undoubted FF connections provided the introductions to banks to get the money, you gotta wonder how much of his property speculations in Eastern Europe will come back to Nama.

An Examiner needs to be sent in to his org and also to chase down personal assets of himself and his family, he has ripped us all off.
 

cry freedom

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Who in blazes is this dckhead??! Did I spell that right you cretin? The ignorance of some of the backward-thinking retards in this country is absolutely depressing...:(

Remember those morons coming to Dublin en mass to protest against the evil regulator (complete with kids holding placards screaming "keep my daddy's job")? I think I lost all faith in middle-Ireland after that...
Hang on there now Wacker.
Radix has as much right to offer an opinion as anybody on this site.
Last time I looked you weren't running the place.
Try as I may I cannot bring myself to dislike Sean Quinn to anywhere near the extent I hate the other players in our downfall.
This may be the ultimate in naivety but I greatly doubt that this man wants to go to his grave owing the Irish taxpayer 2.8 billion.
I doubt we have heard the last of Sean Quinn.
 

upyaboya

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If we are going to have a new beginning, anewbeginning, then we have to move on. You cannot squeeze blood from a stone as the saying goes; Sean Quinn has been brought to his knees and will be lucky to end up owning 5% of the company.

What people are forgetting is, that this was a man who started from nothing and against all the odds, and through sheer bloody hard work built a business which became a massive employer. He was the leaven in the cake which lifted a lot of businesses in a region which had been depressed for generations.

Granted, he did succumb to greed to a certain extent, but his greed produced jobs which put bread on the tables of many families.

Sean Fitzpatrick took him hook, line and sinker waving the 'I'm the owner of the money tree' flag. Fitzpatrick 'personally' employed no one in the same sense as Sean Quinn. The money he 'borrowed' from his 'own bank' went towards propping up his 'own bank', and the rest was speculated abroad. Bubble economics.

Quinn's companies dug sand out of the ground, added value to it through employment and sold the resulting products to the markets right across Europe.

I won't comment on your last point if you don't mind.
I agree with this.
From the moment the revelations came into the public domain, Sean Quinn admitted he was wrong and had made a mistake and he never once said that he would neglect the necessitity to repay his loans!!!

Sean Quinn is an amazingly decent man who got stung by making a poor choice but what people seem to forget about Quinn is that he started with just a farm he inherited, he exploited its potential and developed the largest indigenous business group in the country. He employed thousands of workers in the group.

If he is the p***k that people on this thread are making him out to be, bus loads of employees wouldnt have marched in Dublin to fight for him!!!

Quinn is a good man and deserves recognition for being the major employer he is and not for making a schoolboy error!!! Feel free to correct me on this when Sean Quinn fails to pay this back and cripples the Irish people!!! He is not in the same league as Bernard McNamara or Liam Carroll or any of the rest of the so called "NAMA 10", it was those who brought down this country not Sean Quinn!!!
 

GDPR

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If his businesses make money they will survive and continue to employ people whether he continues to own any of it or not.
The mans character is irrelevant to me. If he has cash or assets they should go towards paying his debts and this applies to everyone. I only want to know that I wont pay his debts out of my taxes while he sits on a pile of cash. I think thats a reasonable expectation and a response couched in emotional arguments to this reasonable expectation is an unreasonable response.
 

stanley

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Hang on there now Wacker.
Radix has as much right to offer an opinion as anybody on this site.
Last time I looked you weren't running the place.
Try as I may I cannot bring myself to dislike Sean Quinn to anywhere near the extent I hate the other players in our downfall.
This may be the ultimate in naivety but I greatly doubt that this man wants to go to his grave owing the Irish taxpayer 2.8 billion.
I doubt we have heard the last of Sean Quinn.


If you were a new banker coming to Quinn's businesses the first thing he would request would be new monies and refinancing of his existing loans.

He would probably want a billion in new loans and very quickly would put over half of that out of reach either through his family or "overseas" investments.

Most of his businesses up in his area were already in existence, he just refinanced them with cheap money but was unable to run any of them properly, he should have stuck to sandpits and concrete, in business terms - stick to the knitting.

He started playing games in CFDs and overseas property which neither of he knew fup all about but it was the endless supply of monies from Anglo and his FF connections kept him digging away in his hole.

With luck Judge Peter Kelly will get to run the rule over him.
 

Touché

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If you were a new banker coming to Quinn's businesses the first thing he would request would be new monies and refinancing of his existing loans.

He would probably want a billion in new loans and very quickly would put over half of that out of reach either through his family or "overseas" investments.

Most of his businesses up in his area were already in existence, he just refinanced them with cheap money but was unable to run any of them properly, he should have stuck to sandpits and concrete, in business terms - stick to the knitting.

He started playing games in CFDs and overseas property which neither of he knew fup all about but it was the endless supply of monies from Anglo and his FF connections kept him digging away in his hole.

With luck Judge Peter Kelly will get to run the rule over him.
+ 1
Judge Peter Kelly, one of our few real heros
 

Anorakphobia

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Sean Quinn's role in the fullness of time will be correctly viewed as critical to the whole debacle and his insane greed trying to win a quick billion punting shares certainly accelerated the banking collapse.
It's a matter of debate who is the biggest villian in the whole mess (my personal fav is and always will be Ahern) but Quinn is right up there .

The "dem bankers done a decent man in" sentiment on this thread is vomit inducing.
Sean Quinn brought his whole group down and lumbered us all with his 3 billion debt all on his own.
Seanie Fitz didn't put a gun to his head (or anyone else for that matter)

Not only did Anglo not fund his suicidal 3 billion share purchase it is a matter of public record that Drumm and Fitzpatrick nearly collapsed when he revealed it to them in 2008.
It was Quinn's ludicrous greed that accelerated the collapse as once the markets got hold of it we were toast.
 

asknoquestions

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Not only did Anglo not fund his suicidal 3 billion share purchase it is a matter of public record that Drumm and Fitzpatrick nearly collapsed when he revealed it to them in 2008.
I thought they did, albeit indirectly. IIRC There was a point in time when Quinn was the biggest borrower and biggest shareholder of Anglo.
 

Nermal

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It beggars belief that this man is still free, is showing no sign of paying back the billions he owes, and that Anglo are not trying to confiscate all of his assets or those he enriched his children with. What does he know? Who is protecting him and why?
 

cocopoppyhead

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I thought they did, albeit indirectly. IIRC There was a point in time when Quinn was the biggest borrower and biggest shareholder of Anglo.
yea, it was a stupid move to try and buy a bank with money largely borrowed from the same bank. It was well known Sean Quinn wanted to own his bank and reform banking in this country as he did with Insurance.. As bad a move as that was, it doesn't mean suddenly he is a bad man. Maybe there should have been a simple banking regulatory rule in place whereby a borrower of the bank cannot buy the bank? just a thought.
He wasn't hiding cash left right and centre and caring ************************ all about people like Seanie Fitzpatrick was doing. Sean Quinn was said to have been taken aback by Fitzpatrick's maverick style, little did he know how corrupt he was, and how he was cooking the books for years. To believe the 2 men have the same morals would be distinctly wrong.

Quinn single handedly brought down the price of insurance in this country, if or rather when he loses control of Quinn Direct, your premiums will increase. Aviva, vhi and so forth are lickin their lips at the prospect of making money off the back of this.. and the same whingers in here will have a new focus of hatred..

Quinngroup does employ thousands of people, just like Dell did (and still do), Intel and many more. He is the biggest indigenous employer in this country, the biggest we have ever had, he aquired a lot of wealth but invested it in creating more jobs (2500 i think). These jobs need to stay safe, if ruining Sean Quinn is the be all and end all, then we really need to think again about the implications of such a stance.

That said, he shouldn't get away scot free, he owes it to the people of this country that he pays back a significant (if not all) portion of this debt. Quinn is only liable for a few small million as far as i know, not 2.8billion, but if he is to be believed (and I do know he is a credible man) then he will pay back what he owes. He said he would on one of the 2 RTE interviews.

If we take away his means to pay back, then you can forget about it. If we proceed with sweeping the mat from under him, then there is little we can expect in return.

So I guess my view, is that we cannot have the best of both worlds, and if we know anything; it is that this man knows how to make money. I'd allow him the opportunity to repay it. Maybe it can be re accessed every 3-5 years to see if he is holding up his side of the bargain.. but our best shot is to allow him a shot at it.
 

cocopoppyhead

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It beggars belief that this man is still free, is showing no sign of paying back the billions he owes, and that Anglo are not trying to confiscate all of his assets or those he enriched his children with. What does he know? Who is protecting him and why?
The man has always been incredibly private, it was never ever easy to get an interview out of him, let alone a public appearance. So the 'signs' might not be something we get to see.. I'm not saying your wrong, but it doesn't mean he is doing nothing.
 

cocopoppyhead

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Not only did Anglo not fund his suicidal 3 billion share purchase it is a matter of public record that Drumm and Fitzpatrick nearly collapsed when he revealed it to them in 2008.
I thought they did, albeit indirectly. IIRC There was a point in time when Quinn was the biggest borrower and biggest shareholder of Anglo.
they partially did. He bought a lot directly from Anglo, and he bought another large portion on the markets as an unknown buyer. (im not sure of the technical terms)
 

stanley

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yea, it was a stupid move to try and buy a bank with money largely borrowed from the same bank. It was well known Sean Quinn wanted to own his bank and reform banking in this country as he did with Insurance.. As bad a move as that was, it doesn't mean suddenly he is a bad man. Maybe there should have been a simple banking regulatory rule in place whereby a borrower of the bank cannot buy the bank? just a thought.
He wasn't hiding cash left right and centre and caring ************************ all about people like Seanie Fitzpatrick was doing. Sean Quinn was said to have been taken aback by Fitzpatrick's maverick style, little did he know how corrupt he was, and how he was cooking the books for years. To believe the 2 men have the same morals would be distinctly wrong.

Quinn single handedly brought down the price of insurance in this country, if or rather when he loses control of Quinn Direct, your premiums will increase. Aviva, vhi and so forth are lickin their lips at the prospect of making money off the back of this.. and the same whingers in here will have a new focus of hatred..

Quinngroup does employ thousands of people, just like Dell did (and still do), Intel and many more. He is the biggest indigenous employer in this country, the biggest we have ever had, he aquired a lot of wealth but invested it in creating more jobs (2500 i think). These jobs need to stay safe, if ruining Sean Quinn is the be all and end all, then we really need to think again about the implications of such a stance.

That said, he shouldn't get away scot free, he owes it to the people of this country that he pays back a significant (if not all) portion of this debt. Quinn is only liable for a few small million as far as i know, not 2.8billion, but if he is to be believed (and I do know he is a credible man) then he will pay back what he owes. He said he would on one of the 2 RTE interviews.

If we take away his means to pay back, then you can forget about it. If we proceed with sweeping the mat from under him, then there is little we can expect in return.

So I guess my view, is that we cannot have the best of both worlds, and if we know anything; it is that this man knows how to make money. I'd allow him the opportunity to repay it. Maybe it can be re accessed every 3-5 years to see if he is holding up his side of the bargain.. but our best shot is to allow him a shot at it.


Time is up on this guy, business should be broken up and those that can stand up on their own, let them do so and those that cannot must go to the wall.

QI set out to undercut all the major insurance companies and buy cashflow, did not put away enough reserves and this is where his FF connections came in and allowed him to get away with it.

To hell with looking at it in 3/5 years crap he has being on borrowed time for 5 years, best shot is to retire and bankrupt him.
 

cocopoppyhead

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Time is up on this guy, business should be broken up and those that can stand up on their own, let them do so and those that cannot must go to the wall.

QI set out to undercut all the major insurance companies and buy cashflow, did not put away enough reserves and this is where his FF connections came in and allowed him to get away with it.

To hell with looking at it in 3/5 years crap he has being on borrowed time for 5 years, best shot is to retire and bankrupt him.
If that is the attitude, then we will be throwing away almost all of the 2.8bn. That wont get us anywhere.. The question needs to be put to him and/or Quinn Group to ask what the plan will be, can they pay it back? will they pay it back? and take it from there... If they do play ball, we must oversee and scrutinise it.. If they dont play ball, then perhaps your singular option has more merit and could be persued. What we need to get is what is best for us, and bankrupting the largest employer in this state wont help us.
 

captainwillard

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Quinn will be looked after by his own, the people of Ballyconnell and North Cavan who benefitted from his commercial acumen and who were gainfully employed by his companies.
 

stanley

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If that is the attitude, then we will be throwing away almost all of the 2.8bn. That wont get us anywhere.. The question needs to be put to him and/or Quinn Group to ask what the plan will be, can they pay it back? will they pay it back? and take it from there... If they do play ball, we must oversee and scrutinise it.. If they dont play ball, then perhaps your singular option has more merit and could be persued. What we need to get is what is best for us, and bankrupting the largest employer in this state wont help us.

All Quinn will ever do is pull more and more money out for himself and his family, take him and the other compliant managers, to his wishes, out of the equation and put in a proper management team to see if it is viable.

A lot of his businesses will be able to stand alone and maybe thrive but they will not in a Group situation where the boss starts heading to the casino with the cashflow.
 

hammer

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Surely the richest man in Ireland is repaying even the interest on his loans.

Maybe a few lump sums against the €2,800 million bearing in mind that his debt to Anglo is over €3,000 million

Give us back our money :(

We could stop cuts to the childrens allowances and home help if he repaid even a portion :)
 
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If we are going to have a new beginning, anewbeginning, then we have to move on. You cannot squeeze blood from a stone as the saying goes; Sean Quinn has been brought to his knees and will be lucky to end up owning 5% of the company.

What people are forgetting is, that this was a man who started from nothing and against all the odds, and through sheer bloody hard work built a business which became a massive employer. He was the leaven in the cake which lifted a lot of businesses in a region which had been depressed for generations.

Granted, he did succumb to greed to a certain extent, but his greed produced jobs which put bread on the tables of many families.

Sean Fitzpatrick took him hook, line and sinker waving the 'I'm the owner of the money tree' flag. Fitzpatrick 'personally' employed no one in the same sense as Sean Quinn. The money he 'borrowed' from his 'own bank' went towards propping up his 'own bank', and the rest was speculated abroad. Bubble economics.

Quinn's companies dug sand out of the ground, added value to it through employment and sold the resulting products to the markets right across Europe.

I won't comment on your last point if you don't mind.
This is absolute rubbish!

Your logic is that an idiot gambling with an insurance company and a bank's shares with cfd's to the extent that he risked the bank, the insurance company and eventually the state's solvency should be let off the hook because he is a 'self made man' and has provided employment. In another post you suggest that due process should be used for other bigwig crooks :

"Michael Lynn anyone, seeing as the Garda Fraud Squad was mentioned?

Or is it a case that cans of worms would be opened if people like Lynn and Fitzpatrich, (sorry), were seen to go through due process?"

You seem to imply that the can of worms should be opened but that it should protect self made men who employ people in Concrete.

No body is above or below the law (except for self made concrete tycoons).
Justice and equality for (nearly) all.

Quinn owes the Irish state a lot of money. We need to get him for everything he's got. We simply don't have any choice. We're at the brink of insolvency, paying over 6% for emergency funding.
 
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