• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

How many British soldiers died in the Northern conflict?

Nimrod

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
41
PatMcL said:
Nimrod said:
PatMcL said:
LordWestBritofKingstown said:
PatMcL said:
One of the excuse makers for the British Army has alleged that following the Warrenpoint operation there was a gun battle between what was left of the Paras and an ASU on the southern side of the water.
There is no evidence at all of any such gunbattle. The only person killed by gunfire was an Englisgman who had been fishing near the scene.
The Gardai found no evidence at all of spent cartridges on the southern side of the border. Of those killed or injured on the British side not one had a gunshot wound.

The only possible conclusion one can come to is that either in sheer panic or in a malicious act of revenge on a person presumed to be Irish the BA murdered a man. The 'gunbattle' story was invented to cover up an act that can only be described as murder.


So why do the PIRA have a mural depicting them firing down on Warrenpoint/Narrowwater ?

As for murder, it was a tourist fishing in the river opposite, wrong time, wrong place to be standing with a rod which could have been mistaken from a distance an aerial, a tragedy but hardly 'murder' :roll:
As far as I am aware the IRA was not involved in the official investigation into the attack, the Gardai were. They did not find any evidence at all of a gunbattle. It is telling that in your rush to defend a murder you put store on a mural, what kind of evidence is that? Doesn't matter about actual evidence or forensics and even scenes of crime investigations, someone painted a picture on a wall and you construct an excuse around that.

As for the murder of the fisherman the 'wrong time, wrong place' is all too familiar of the dismissive attitude adopted when BA members are in the frame for a crime.
Just admit that your account of a 'gunbattle' was dishonest and an attempt to mislead contributors to the thread.



So lets get this right the soldiers who survived Warrenpoint and in the confussion of the moment fired on and killed a fisherman are murderers and those that planted the bomb are simply the victims of soldiers false claims.

Is it any wonder there can never be a full resolution to the problems in NI, when republicans are so inherently dishonest ?

I am afraid you are a bit confused as to the argument here and suggest you re-read the posts. A contributor to this thread stated categorically that in the aftermath of the Warrenpoint attack a gunbattle ensued, in that gunbattle a fisherman was killed. I pointed out that no evidence of a gunbattle existed and thus the killing of the fisherman was murder. Those who planted the bomb etc were not even mentioned.

Yet again another apologist is attempt to construct an argument on a falsehood.


But how is mistakenly firing on and killing a fisherman in the confussion after two massive bomb blasts a murder ?

Seems your the apologist for the bombers, trying to create a an argument that the soldiers some of whom were 18 and 19, the youngest victim at Warrennpoint was 17(?) were the bad guys and 'murdered' a fisherman.

The survivors would have been deafened and in the smoke and mass confussion they would not have been able to tell if they were still under attack, they saw a guy in the distance holding what looked like an antenna and fired on him, possibly even thinking of a third possible explosion.

Thats the reality.
 


PatMcL

Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
99
The reality is that no one except those present know exactly why they killed an innocent fisherman. They could as you put it have been confused and disorientated in the face of a combat situation. Alternatively they could have quite deliberately taken someone out they perceived to be Irish in a pathetic attempt at revenge. The only thing I am stating is that it was not as a result of some imagined 'gunbattle' that was stated as fact by a contributor defending the actions of the British Army.

Simple really.
 

Beauduiker

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
14
bearing in mind the original posed question : How many ....etc? I would like to put forward a thought ( and please guys, I am not trying to provoke anything, See some of my most recent posts to confirm that!)
If the question posed was 'how many voluteers were killed in the conflict?' I am pretty certain the same discrepencies in actual figures would occur, depending on which side the report was sourced from, because there have been many deaths that were classed as known players by RUC/BA, but their involvment in the RA was denied by PIRA.
There is an old saying that states the first 2 casualties in any war are truth and innocence.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
23
i would just like to state that brenden moley and brenden burns were republican legends. They're up there with the greats.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
26
the hatchetman said:
i would just like to state that brenden moley and brenden burns were republican legends. They're up there with the greats.

Burns blew himself up in 88, what did his life achieve apart from inflicting misery on himself and so many, not one thing.


Its republicans who have kept Ireland divided, dont you understand that ?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
23
LordWestBritofKingstown said:
the hatchetman said:
i would just like to state that brenden moley and brenden burns were republican legends. They're up there with the greats.

Burns blew himself up in 88, what did his life achieve apart from inflicting misery on himself and so many, not one thing.


Its republicans who have kept Ireland divided, dont you understand that ?
In fact as ive pointed out on another thread the british government through a reign of terror on the Irish people broke a democratically elected parliament, Most people on this borad will agree.

As for brenden burns, there is evidence that the controlled scanners the british had in use to prematurely detonate bombs was the reason for the explosion.

Tom barry and brenden burns will go down as the best militarist republicans of the 20th century.

Also i'd like to point out that the behaviour of the crown authorities after brenden burns death was deplorable, absolutely shocking.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
4,577
Nimrod said:
ON THE ONE ROAD said:
Aindriu said:
[quote="ON THE ONE ROAD":13u73542]now good for you if your big enough to look over past discressions but i suggest that you won't get very far if you can't even take basic critisism's of the british army
But they weren't "basic" were they? You accused every British Soldier of being a thug, something that is quite untrue.
ah do you accept the currah mutiney is responsible for partition. did you google it or yahoo.

soldiers preform there function, i suppose it could be called thugery. don't be nieve about the nature of armies it's a dirty job but people don't have to do it.


What were Irish Republicans doing when the thugs of the British army were liberating Bergen-Belsen ?

Talk is cheap.[/quote:13u73542]

most likey trying to arm train or prepare to take on the british government. it's kinda what they do. Should they stop doing that because by coincidence the british army found it'self on the 'right' side of world war 2

coversation on the army council said:
well the brits did liberate belsen, i suppose that does rubbish our theory that ireland has an inaliable right to self determination. all agreed say tá. tá.
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,621
the hatchetman said:
[As for brenden burns, there is evidence that the controlled scanners the british had in use to prematurely detonate bombs was the reason for the explosion.quote]

Complete crap!! A scanner is a RECEIVER it does not ergo give out a TRANSMISSION

The system used did not give out a transmission. It did receive the signals that are given out by RC controllers as they try to find a servo to talk to.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,295
Aindriu said:
the hatchetman said:
[As for brenden burns, there is evidence that the controlled scanners the british had in use to prematurely detonate bombs was the reason for the explosion.quote]

Complete crap!! A scanner is a RECEIVER it does not ergo give out a TRANSMISSION

The system used did not give out a transmission. It did receive the signals that are given out by RC controllers as they try to find a servo to talk to.
If I recall correctly, the BA used to jam the bands (the Citizen Band radio (27 MHz )I think) used by PIRA for their remote control detonation systems. The scanners would have been another part of the electronic warfare technology at the time. It would not have been unthinkable that the scanners detected the signals from the tests of the remote control systems and then targeted the jamming systems on those frequencies. This (again I'm going from stuff I read years ago) forced PIRA engineers into using dummy antennas with extemely short range to limit the RF emissions from the systems.

Regards...jmcc
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,621
jmcc said:
Aindriu said:
the hatchetman said:
[As for brenden burns, there is evidence that the controlled scanners the british had in use to prematurely detonate bombs was the reason for the explosion.quote]

Complete crap!! A scanner is a RECEIVER it does not ergo give out a TRANSMISSION

The system used did not give out a transmission. It did receive the signals that are given out by RC controllers as they try to find a servo to talk to.
If I recall correctly, the BA used to jam the bands (the Citizen Band radio (27 MHz )I think) used by PIRA for their remote control detonation systems. The scanners would have been another part of the electronic warfare technology at the time. It would not have been unthinkable that the scanners detected the signals from the tests of the remote control systems and then targeted the jamming systems on those frequencies. This (again I'm going from stuff I read years ago) forced PIRA engineers into using dummy antennas with extemely short range to limit the RF emissions from the systems.

Regards...jmcc
Jamming will not cause an RCIED to explode. It will prevent it doing so. An RCIED cannot receive a signal if the band is jammed, consequently it sits there as a dumb device. The ONLY way a device could initiate under those circumstances is if the BUILDER had set it so that it would detonate if the carrier wave was jammed - a kind of "anti-handling device" if you will. If that is the case then the RA caused the deaths sin é.
 

Nimrod

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
41
ON THE ONE ROAD said:
Nimrod said:
[quote="ON THE ONE ROAD":1o9zir0u]
Aindriu said:
[quote="ON THE ONE ROAD":1o9zir0u]now good for you if your big enough to look over past discressions but i suggest that you won't get very far if you can't even take basic critisism's of the british army
But they weren't "basic" were they? You accused every British Soldier of being a thug, something that is quite untrue.
ah do you accept the currah mutiney is responsible for partition. did you google it or yahoo.

soldiers preform there function, i suppose it could be called thugery. don't be nieve about the nature of armies it's a dirty job but people don't have to do it.


What were Irish Republicans doing when the thugs of the British army were liberating Bergen-Belsen ?

Talk is cheap.[/quote:1o9zir0u]

most likey trying to arm train or prepare to take on the british government. it's kinda what they do. Should they stop doing that because by coincidence the british army found it'self on the 'right' side of world war 2

coversation on the army council said:
well the brits did liberate belsen, i suppose that does rubbish our theory that ireland has an inaliable right to self determination. all agreed say tá. tá.
[/quote:1o9zir0u]


Actually they were plotting with the Nazis to act as German quislings.

Self determination via evolution not revolution which has caused all the problems.
 

AndyDev

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
10
LordWestBritofKingstown said:
PatMcL said:
One of the excuse makers for the British Army has alleged that following the Warrenpoint operation there was a gun battle between what was left of the Paras and an ASU on the southern side of the water.
There is no evidence at all of any such gunbattle. The only person killed by gunfire was an Englisgman who had been fishing near the scene.
The Gardai found no evidence at all of spent cartridges on the southern side of the border. Of those killed or injured on the British side not one had a gunshot wound.

The only possible conclusion one can come to is that either in sheer panic or in a malicious act of revenge on a person presumed to be Irish the BA murdered a man. The 'gunbattle' story was invented to cover up an act that can only be described as murder.


So why do the PIRA have a mural depicting them firing down on Warrenpoint/Narrowwater ?

As for murder, it was a tourist fishing in the river opposite, wrong time, wrong place to be standing with a rod which could have been mistaken in the heat of the moment from a distance as a RCIED aerial antenna, a tragedy but hardly 'murder' :roll:
Have you not learned yet my friend that the British are all evil and are to blame for all of Ireland's problems? It's part of our identity to be the victim. And do you not also know that only the British committed murder and that the IRA were merely defending the Irish community in the North? I mean anyone with a Wolfe Tone's album or two could tell you this. They defended them so well that they managed to kill more of them than the evil Brits.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
4,577
Nimrod said:
ON THE ONE ROAD said:
Nimrod said:
[quote="ON THE ONE ROAD":2spuf35j]
Aindriu said:
[quote="ON THE ONE ROAD":2spuf35j]now good for you if your big enough to look over past discressions but i suggest that you won't get very far if you can't even take basic critisism's of the british army
But they weren't "basic" were they? You accused every British Soldier of being a thug, something that is quite untrue.
ah do you accept the currah mutiney is responsible for partition. did you google it or yahoo.

soldiers preform there function, i suppose it could be called thugery. don't be nieve about the nature of armies it's a dirty job but people don't have to do it.


What were Irish Republicans doing when the thugs of the British army were liberating Bergen-Belsen ?

Talk is cheap.
most likey trying to arm train or prepare to take on the british government. it's kinda what they do. Should they stop doing that because by coincidence the british army found it'self on the 'right' side of world war 2

coversation on the army council said:
well the brits did liberate belsen, i suppose that does rubbish our theory that ireland has an inaliable right to self determination. all agreed say tá. tá.
[/quote:2spuf35j]


Actually they were plotting with the Nazis to act as German quislings.

Self determination via evolution not revolution which has caused all the problems.[/quote:2spuf35j]

i don't deny whey aligned themselves with the nazi's. they learned something from your lot. the end justify's the means

bit hard to evolve when for hundrends of years the british army have been there to prevent it. even today the british gun is still a dark shadow in irish politics
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
26
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/stories.htm


Intresting story.

Stories about the 'Troubles' turn up in a range of guises, from jokes and anecdotes about places like Drumcree and politicians such as Gerry Fitt and Ian Paisley - not to mention Secretaries of State - to ghost legends like the one commemorating the mass death of 18 soldiers near Warrenpoint in 1979. Accounts of this latter example describe motorists being stopped at a checkpoint on that stretch of road, looking down to get a driving licence or open the boot and then, seconds later, realising that the patrol has vanished into thin air.
 

Lain2016

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
7,607
So the British Army lost 763 men killed,
while the IRA lost 276 and according to wikipedia (citing a book called Provisional IRA (1988)) about 8000-10000 IRA members were imprisoned.

The Troubles was certainly special when realizing that the counter-insurgency forces were more willing to sacrifice their men than the guerilla force fighting them.
Maybe the main reason the IRA lost where the Vietcong and others succeded?
???

The IRA reckon they won...

 

Republic32

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
2,165
Nobody won.
3,000+, their relatives and god knows how many tens of thousands whom were injured either physically,emotionally or mentally were big losers though.
 

Glaucon

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
8,270
Clever bugger that Tony Blair, both sides convinced that they won. The reality is that there was a compromise, accept that and move on please.
Right, and that was best all around. Otherwise we would have a Kurdish situation where rebels are fighting against the government with no international aid continuously for generations.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top