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How many of our new buildings are in danger of falling down?


Bobcolebrooke

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Jan 5, 2013
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610
How many of our new buildings are in danger of falling down?

The Building Control Act which came into force in June 1992 created a regime where buildings were certified as complying with the Building Regulations and British Standards Design codes by the buildings designers or their subcontractors.

Certificates were acceptable to the Law Society and the Banks from designers who had no formal qualification in Engineering.

All that was required was for the person certifying to be old enough to pretend they were in private practice for 10 years.

This begs the question as to how some one could start a practice without qualifications?


The Building Control regime which applies to commercial buildings involves drawings being submitted to local Authorities which are approved with the issue of a Fire Certificate. The onus is on the certifing designer to then ensure the building complies with the design.

We have already seen how building control has failed in the planning and building control functions.

Do we need an independent check of all buildings designed by people without professional qualifications?
 

Mitsui2

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Nov 13, 2009
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33,382
How many of our new buildings are in danger of falling down?
If even quarter of the stories I heard from tradesman acquaintances during the building boom were true, and if my local area was at all typical of the rest of the country, then I suspect that the answer to that question is "Quite a few".
 

dizillusioned

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Jan 19, 2011
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The problem I see is that building permits are not required... plans maybe submitted for approval, but subsequent inspections by a building inspector is not done...
 

Bea C

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In Tralee town centre, in a building stretch I dunno, ten years old or so, boots, tesco, etc all have buckets all about the place if there's heavy rain.
 

Bobcolebrooke

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The problem I see is that building permits are not required... plans maybe submitted for approval, but subsequent inspections by a building inspector is not done...


There are cases where plans are submitted and approved with them built exactly as designed only to emerge later that there are major structural problems.

Many local authority staff never worked on a building site let alone a major development to gain a breath of experience.

Who ever thought it was a good idea to let self styled Engineers with no training and no qualifications practice as engineers?
 

constitutionus

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TBH theres tons of stuff that never got finished in the first place and have been exposed to the elements for over 5years now.

i dont think anything can be done for that lot now except pulling em down.

and of the finished stock.

i'd WELL belive a subtantial number of em arent up the scratch as corners were cut but they "knew" the right contacts to get the certs.

theres more than one priory hall waiting out there.
 

Bobcolebrooke

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Jan 5, 2013
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TBH theres tons of stuff that never got finished in the first place and have been exposed to the elements for over 5years now.

i dont think anything can be done for that lot now except pulling em down.

and of the finished stock.

i'd WELL belive a subtantial number of em arent up the scratch as corners were cut but they "knew" the right contacts to get the certs.

theres more than one priory hall waiting out there.

A friend of mine was offered as little as €60 per apartment to provide "Certificates of Compliance" for 100 apartments. The Builder was indignant that he was told it would cost a lot more and that it would be subject to extensive inspection.
 

eyelight

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Going back 30 years or so, my parents had an extension built on to the house.
One day the council inspector was due to visit to make sure it was being done according to the plans I suppose.
The builder, a real bunch of cowboys as it turned out, instructed my dad to go buy a bottle of whiskey for this inspector.
When he arrived the builders presented him with this bottle, and everything was hunky dory. Except 30 years later the roof leaks.

I assume things were even more cavalier during the crazy times.
 

Analyzer

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Good question.
 

constitutionus

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Going back 30 years or so, my parents had an extension built on to the house.
One day the council inspector was due to visit to make sure it was being done according to the plans I suppose.
The builder, a real bunch of cowboys as it turned out, instructed my dad to go buy a bottle of whiskey for this inspector.
When he arrived the builders presented him with this bottle, and everything was hunky dory. Except 30 years later the roof leaks.

I assume things were even more cavalier during the crazy times.
TBH im surprised it was even inspected !

my da built our own kitchen extension to the back of the gaff and didnt even have planing permission. way the law was then (and still is now IIRC) If no one complains about it for a certain amount of time ya get away with it.

planning irish style eh?

:D
 

Bobcolebrooke

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The inherant problem with our system was that Engineers or Architects who were too fussy about Standards did not get hired for the next job.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
64
Going back 30 years or so, my parents had an extension built on to the house.
One day the council inspector was due to visit to make sure it was being done according to the plans I suppose.
The builder, a real bunch of cowboys as it turned out, instructed my dad to go buy a bottle of whiskey for this inspector.
When he arrived the builders presented him with this bottle, and everything was hunky dory. Except 30 years later the roof leaks.

I assume things were even more cavalier during the crazy times.
30 odd years and there's a leak in the roof,in all fairness all materials perish over time so a leak in roof that old is nothing,i've seen roof leaks within 1 or 2 years of being constructed
 

constitutionus

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The inherant problem with our system was that Engineers or Architects who were too fussy about Standards did not get hired for the next job.
TBH i think it was more down to greedy county councils looking for the cash they got per unit (circa 28k or so IIRC).

The fuppers granted permission to build on flood plains for gods sake.

its on the bleeding maps you shouldnt build there and yet they granted it. they probably thought it was the easiest money they ever made.

wait till they have to deal with the fall out.
 

Deep Blue

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Jul 4, 2012
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2,422
TBH im surprised it was even inspected !

my da built our own kitchen extension to the back of the gaff and didnt even have planing permission. way the law was then (and still is now IIRC) If no one complains about it for a certain amount of time ya get away with it.

planning irish style eh?

:D
Oh yes, and when you build now you engage an engineer/surveyor to oversee it. He draws up the 'snag list' at the end and it never gets 'unsnagged'; the engineer knows the builder who knows the Council inspector who knows the engineer's brother-in-law-- and you're just the mug who pays everybody..

30 odd years and there's a leak in the roof,in all fairness all materials perish over time so a leak in roof that old is nothing,i've seen roof leaks within 1 or 2 years of being constructed
Flat roofed extensions are fine on a Texan hacienda, but most unsuitable in a country where it rains 300 days of the year.
I speak from bitter experience.:(
 

Pat Gill

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The inherant problem with our system was that Engineers or Architects who were too fussy about Standards did not get hired for the next job.
Surely that should read sometimes did not get hired for the next job.

Not all building firms/developers are/were cowboys.
And many of them have only learned about NAMA by reading the newspapers.
 

Pat Gill

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And as if in answer to the OP we have the breaking news,

TWO men have died and a number of people have been injured after an internal 40ft wall in a DIY and garden centre collapsed.

It is understood both staff and customers were injured by falling debris.
The accident happened at about 2pm at the Connacht Gold DIY and Garden Centre off the Athlone Road in Longford. It opened in April last year.



Two dead after wall collapses in Longford DIY centre - National News - Independent.ie
 

eyelight

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Sep 16, 2010
Messages
8,312
Flat roofed extensions are fine on a Texan hacienda, but most unsuitable in a country where it rains 300 days of the year.
I speak from bitter experience.:(
This is a pitched roof extension, and somebody scrimped on the flashing that goes under the roof tiles.
 

Davidoff

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Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,485
TBH i think it was more down to greedy county councils looking for the cash they got per unit (circa 28k or so IIRC).

The fuppers granted permission to build on flood plains for gods sake.

its on the bleeding maps you shouldnt build there and yet they granted it. they probably thought it was the easiest money they ever made.

wait till they have to deal with the fall out.
Says it all, doesn't it?

We may have only scratched the surface of the problems that are out there.

Looking at the images from yesterday's tragedy, you have to feel for the victims. If one of those blocks fell on you from a height you'd have no chance.
 

joemac67

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
681
How many of our new buildings are in danger of falling down?

The Building Control Act which came into force in June 1992 created a regime where buildings were certified as complying with the Building Regulations and British Standards Design codes by the buildings designers or their subcontractors.

Certificates were acceptable to the Law Society and the Banks from designers who had no formal qualification in Engineering.

All that was required was for the person certifying to be old enough to pretend they were in private practice for 10 years.

This begs the question as to how some one could start a practice without qualifications?


The Building Control regime which applies to commercial buildings involves drawings being submitted to local Authorities which are approved with the issue of a Fire Certificate. The onus is on the certifing designer to then ensure the building complies with the design.

We have already seen how building control has failed in the planning and building control functions.

Do we need an independent check of all buildings designed by people without professional qualifications?
Somebody built a 30m high wall in longford with cavity blocks , nice one ! , will somebody in longford county council get fired , nooooooooooooooooooo
 
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