How "old" is Ireland?

Drogheda445

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When asked to date the age of certain countries in the world, there are many examples that are fairly straightforward. The "New World" Europeanised nations of the Americas, e.g. The USA, Brazil etc were formed out of revolutionary agitation and began as assertions of independence from their respective "mother" countries.

In the "Old World", where cultures and ethnic groups have existed for thousands of years, dating countries is more difficult by the long evolution of their societies, periods of foreign conquest and the arrival of different religions. Most, however, can point to some form of political unity in the past under a different format and claim to have originated with those former regimes. Examples could include India, Germany (through the Holy Roman Empire), China, etc.

Ireland is often referred to as an ancient country, with a national language continuously spoken since at least the first millennium BC and signs of cultural unity across the island even in the remoter days of the Pre-Christian and Early-Christian period (the universal nature of the Brehon Laws for instance, a High Kingship that became politically important under Brian Boru but perhaps even earlier). And yet it is correct to say, however, that Ireland never achieved political unity in the pre-modern world, with the earliest possible example of independent, unitary "Irish" sovereignty being the Confederation of Kilkenny in the 1640s. If stricter criteria is applied, the Republic established in 1916 is the earliest you could possibly date a continuous history of Irish statehood up until the present day.

Robert Kee, in his famous book on Irish nationalism, The Green Flag, suggests that a sense of Irish identity that meant more than a geographic labelling, specifically becoming a national label, didn't emerge until the days of the United Irishmen at the earliest, being given more definition with the likes of O'Connell's Repeal movement and the efforts of Thomas Davis. That is to say that the notion of the existence of a nation called Ireland was only asserted about two centuries ago.

Where should we draw the line when it comes to the history of the Irish nation? Was it only a recent creation or did it emerge "organically" in the more distant past as is often conventionally assumed (regardless of the political nature of Ireland at the time). When did "Ireland" as a country come into being? Or is it really a redundant question?
 


runwiththewind

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Didn't the ancients meet at Tara every four years to formulate laws and play games.
 

Mick Mac

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There was a sense of identity quite long ago. Look at the legends and stories from the12 the century.
 

between the bridges

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1690...
 

GDPR

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You'll have mitsui2 along here soon with his "just sayin'"s telling you off for not being "historical" enough. As if he's p.ie's resident expert :)

And 1690... is definitely wrong.
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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Rots always considers Ireland the M.I.L.F country.:shock:..sure Cathlin must be a great age now if she is still not a fine looking woman....:rolleyes:
 

stopdoingstuff

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The question is when did Irish people first begin to see themselves as a nation and as a possible political entity.
 

GDPR

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Rots always considers Ireland the M.I.L.F country.:shock:..sure Cathlin must be a great age now if she is still not a fine looking woman....:rolleyes:
Sure the Old Woman is the symbol of Ireland.

Pie is full of old women, especially the men. That is why it is Ireland's Premeer Political Website.
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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Sure the Old Woman is the symbol of Ireland.

Pie is full of old women, especially the men. That is why it is Ireland's Premeer Political Website.
Have to agree with you comrade, though it does cut close to the bone....poor Moi...:-( lol XX
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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Ah feck it.

I was thinking of Between the Bridges, sure he would know, "She was old but she was beautiful ... "

XXX
:cool::cool: Between the Bridges is to old women, as the Trumpster is too orange dye ....inextricably linked beyond parody.......:cool:
 

Congalltee

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Ireland - Republic of Ireland - Free State- Irish Republic - pre-Act of union- Brian Boru- Hibernia - Banba
 

Dearghoul

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When asked to date the age of certain countries in the world, there are many examples that are fairly straightforward. The "New World" Europeanised nations of the Americas, e.g. The USA, Brazil etc were formed out of revolutionary agitation and began as assertions of independence from their respective "mother" countries.

In the "Old World", where cultures and ethnic groups have existed for thousands of years, dating countries is more difficult by the long evolution of their societies, periods of foreign conquest and the arrival of different religions. Most, however, can point to some form of political unity in the past under a different format and claim to have originated with those former regimes. Examples could include India, Germany (through the Holy Roman Empire), China, etc.

Ireland is often referred to as an ancient country, with a national language continuously spoken since at least the first millennium BC and signs of cultural unity across the island even in the remoter days of the Pre-Christian and Early-Christian period (the universal nature of the Brehon Laws for instance, a High Kingship that became politically important under Brian Boru but perhaps even earlier). And yet it is correct to say, however, that Ireland never achieved political unity in the pre-modern world, with the earliest possible example of independent, unitary "Irish" sovereignty being the Confederation of Kilkenny in the 1640s. If stricter criteria is applied, the Republic established in 1916 is the earliest you could possibly date a continuous history of Irish statehood up until the present day.

Robert Kee, in his famous book on Irish nationalism, The Green Flag, suggests that a sense of Irish identity that meant more than a geographic labelling, specifically becoming a national label, didn't emerge until the days of the United Irishmen at the earliest, being given more definition with the likes of O'Connell's Repeal movement and the efforts of Thomas Davis. That is to say that the notion of the existence of a nation called Ireland was only asserted about two centuries ago.

Where should we draw the line when it comes to the history of the Irish nation? Was it only a recent creation or did it emerge "organically" in the more distant past as is often conventionally assumed (regardless of the political nature of Ireland at the time). When did "Ireland" as a country come into being? Or is it really a redundant question?
I'd just suggest that in the absence of oppositional forces particularly up to the Strongbow invasions that nationhood or particularity in the face of other cultures was simply not envisaged by the native people.

Sure we had the Viking incursions but that may not have been enough to 'define' the populace in face of what they were unaware of as the great weight of other cultures, particularly as we sent them packing or accommodated them.

This is just a guess, and I'm looking forward to reading better read people than me on the topic.

If we came slowly to a definition of ourselves as a Nation between 1600 and say, 1800 we wouldn't exactly be alone. There's Germany.
 

Munnkeyman

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Ireland was only invented in the 1920s to sell Irish whiskey, Aran men, girls dancing at crossroads and chubby babies to degenerate American slobs with a twisted saviour complex.
 

GDPR

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Ireland was only invented in the 1920s to sell Irish whiskey, Aran men, girls dancing at crossroads and chubby babies to degenerate American slobs with a twisted saviour complex.
YAYYY!

Munkeyperson. Irish monkypeople are the bestest, and oldest, and veryiest.

XXX
 


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