How our politicians have corrupted democracy

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,988
Thomas Jefferson - author of the Declaration of Independence in the US, once said "When government fears the people, there is liberty".

This was true then and is true today, and it's become very apparent that in Ireland our governments really, really, don't fear the people at all.

What politician over the past 4 decades has ever faced justice or judgement?

Bertie Ahern destroyed our economy and was found to have "questions to answer" in terms of unaccountable deposits and donations, but still collects a pension greater than most fully employed successful graduates could ever aspire to.

In Ireland we seem to swap governments between tweedle dee and tweedle dum, scandals come and go but there's never any consequences, nor it would seem any fear of consequences.

FF nearly destroyed the country and many of its ministers chose to not even run again so as to avoid any judgement, but still go on to collect a pension and exploit all the contacts they made - look at Cowen as a board member in Topaz, for example.

So, back to Jefferson - our politicians don't fear us, their pensions and good name are protected by the constitution they wrote, the absolute WORST thing the citizens can do is NOT vote for them and send them off to an early retirement with time to ring the names on the Rolodex and exploit their experience.

Kenny has literally obstructed justice by sitting on the Moriarty Report until it passed it's statute date. There seems to be nothing we can do - in 12 months he'll retire, take a handful of pensions and live out the rest of his days in state funded luxury.

If they don't fear is how can we ever get real liberty or democracy.
 


Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,158
Our politicians don't fear us they make the majority dependent welfarism , civil service , public service etc which suit their agendas .
We have corrupt career politicians that use the bond system to buy votes with impunity ,a system the needs to be changed , we also need term limits to stop the corruption , if this ain't done nothing will change ,and the middle classes will get fook up the ass forever and a day .
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29,561
Twitter
No
I recall pointing this out previously. That the best possible thing that could have happened politically in Ireland is a government being heaved into the Liffey by the public at least once in our history.

Irish politicians have become complacent well beyond the point of actual contempt for the electorate.

Pat Rabbitte demonstrated that by pointing out that lying was a thing one does to be elected while on a panel on national TV.

They treat the electorate like sh1te and then expect and demand to be treated like squires.

And are deeply offended when any member of the public takes them to task. There won't be a properly balanced Republic in Ireland with the proper respect for the electorate from the political class in Ireland until such time as an Irish Government is heaved into the Liffey.
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,158
You have parish pump parochial politics with families controlling seats in a lot of electorate areas ,it diabolical we need term limits or we will get the same shyte nod and wink politics with populist bollockology

I recall pointing this out previously. That the best possible thing that could have happened politically in Ireland is a government being heaved into the Liffey by the public at least once in our history.

Irish politicians have become complacent well beyond the point of actual contempt for the electorate.

Pat Rabbitte demonstrated that by pointing out that lying was a thing one does to be elected while on a panel on national TV.

They treat the electorate like sh1te and then expect and demand to be treated like squires.

And are deeply offended when any member of the public takes them to task. There won't be a properly balanced Republic in Ireland with the proper respect for the electorate from the political class in Ireland until such time as an Irish Government is heaved into the Liffey.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
45,623
Don't mention the Moriarty Tribunal.....

( stated in a Basil Fawlty lile manner ).
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29,561
Twitter
No
There'll be someone on in a minute to say that the people have a chance every five years to correct their mistakes.

It takes a minister less than that to gain a pension for life. Think about that arrangement for a minute.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
45,623
The media are an essential part of maintaining the rot.

The performamce of the IT BS ( business supplement ) giving glorious reviews before 2007 to an entire series of gangsters.

Or the property mania. And the bank share mania.

The media are the toilet paper that cleans the mess of corruption so that nobody will see it.
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29,561
Twitter
No
Worth remembering when it comes to the Irish media that both the Irish Times and the Independent condemned the Rising in no uncertain terms and there was an editorial or two in there demanding that the strongest possible sanctions be exercised against the leaders.

The bit both newspapers would prefer the nation forgot.
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,158
There'll be someone on in a minute to say that the people have a chance every five years to correct their mistakes.

It takes a minister less than that to gain a pension for life. Think about that arrangement for a minute.
It's an absolute disgrace , plus politicians should be held accountable for lying to get elected , plus there should be a small body appointed by the people that should be able to sack lying baswards , corrupt baswards , complacent baswards , and lazy baswards .
 

Fractional Reserve

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
8,158
The main stream media depend on government ads in good times and bad they ain't going to rock the boat
The media are an essential part of maintaining the rot.

The performamce of the IT BS ( business supplement ) giving glorious reviews before 2007 to an entire series of gangsters.
The main stream media national and local depend on government ads in bads and good times
Or the property mania. And the bank share mania.

The media are the toilet paper that cleans the mess of corruption so that nobody will see it.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,496
if democracy consists of politicians who ''buy the election'' everytime, then it is alive and well in ireland.

now, when it comes to ideology, principles, tough decisions and 'doing the right thing'....thats another problem.

Irish Politicians are like parents of an obese lazy spoilt child who keep offering him 2 litre bottles of Coke to get out of bed before noon. The 100 year history of the State is all of overspending, bankruptsy, boom and bust, carrots offered at election time followed by crippling taxation just after.

A left-wing irish party offers high spending and low taxation. As does a right wing party.

warplanes at Shannon ? democracy ?
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,988
Does anyone have any practical ideas on how to make politicians more "accountable", or fear us, as Jerrerson would put it.

I've always thought that some kind of career retrospective should be required after all senior politicians retire to agree on an appropriate pension. A kind of jury function where 12 randomers get to decide where on the scale of 0 to 100% their achievements warrant their pension.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,496
the Caesars in Rome were accountable. I read somewhere that of 36 Caesars, only a handful died peacefully of natural causes.
 

publicrealm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
5,900
Does anyone have any practical ideas on how to make politicians more "accountable", or fear us, as Jerrerson would put it.

I've always thought that some kind of career retrospective should be required after all senior politicians retire to agree on an appropriate pension. A kind of jury function where 12 randomers get to decide where on the scale of 0 to 100% their achievements warrant their pension.
It may be that their continued pushing of IW will result in their Nuremberg.

Hopefully.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
Thomas Jefferson - author of the Declaration of Independence in the US, once said "When government fears the people, there is liberty".

This was true then and is true today, and it's become very apparent that in Ireland our governments really, really, don't fear the people at all.

What politician over the past 4 decades has ever faced justice or judgement?

Bertie Ahern destroyed our economy and was found to have "questions to answer" in terms of unaccountable deposits and donations, but still collects a pension greater than most fully employed successful graduates could ever aspire to.

In Ireland we seem to swap governments between tweedle dee and tweedle dum, scandals come and go but there's never any consequences, nor it would seem any fear of consequences.

FF nearly destroyed the country and many of its ministers chose to not even run again so as to avoid any judgement, but still go on to collect a pension and exploit all the contacts they made - look at Cowen as a board member in Topaz, for example.

So, back to Jefferson - our politicians don't fear us, their pensions and good name are protected by the constitution they wrote, the absolute WORST thing the citizens can do is NOT vote for them and send them off to an early retirement with time to ring the names on the Rolodex and exploit their experience.

Kenny has literally obstructed justice by sitting on the Moriarty Report until it passed it's statute date. There seems to be nothing we can do - in 12 months he'll retire, take a handful of pensions and live out the rest of his days in state funded luxury.

If they don't fear is how can we ever get real liberty or democracy.
When you confuse your own opinions for facts, you'll nearly always be disappointed with the results.
 

venusian

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
6,834
It may be that their continued pushing of IW will result in their Nuremberg.

Hopefully.
Well you only had to look how at how FG/"labour" attempted to smear and demonise ethical civil minded ordinary decent tax payers that protest(ed) against IW, the concerted and continued media campaign e.g. "sinister fringe" nonsense, the lies (downplaying ) about the hundreds of thousands of anti IW protesters, the abuse of the Gardai being used by FG/"labour" as Auxillary Water Meter Installers and acting as heavy handed thugs etc.

It shows in reality how terrified FG and the status quo in society are of Irish citizens showing they are in control and the fear politicians have of direct Democratic action. FG have lost huge political support as they have been exposed for their lies and corruption non more so than what they did with IW, the "labour" party has been correctly nearly eradicated for its support of IW and political policing.

If FG and their bosses in FF don't come up with a permanent solution and keep pushing unwarranted regressive charges for IW they will have their political heads kicked in at the next election. Continued direct action with mass non payment and protesting will end IW for good. The government must be made fear the electorate and there are more than one ways to do that...as they will find out if they don't end IW charges a.s.a.p.:mad:
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,988
When you confuse your own opinions for facts, you'll nearly always be disappointed with the results.
I'd be interested to get your perspective on which of my opinions outlined in the OP aren't facts.

maybe you could start debunking my opinion with a list of all the politicians who have been held to account for their incompetence and or corruption.
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,295
I'd be interested to get your perspective on which of my opinions outlined in the OP aren't facts.

maybe you could start debunking my opinion with a list of all the politicians who have been held to account for their incompetence and or corruption.
Whinge whinge whinge. There's no one stopping you from flying off to this political utopia you think is out there
 

Trainwreck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
26,416
Thomas Jefferson - author of the Declaration of Independence in the US, once said "When government fears the people, there is liberty".

This was true then and is true today, and it's become very apparent that in Ireland our governments really, really, don't fear the people at all.

What politician over the past 4 decades has ever faced justice or judgement?

Bertie Ahern destroyed our economy and was found to have "questions to answer" in terms of unaccountable deposits and donations, but still collects a pension greater than most fully employed successful graduates could ever aspire to.

In Ireland we seem to swap governments between tweedle dee and tweedle dum, scandals come and go but there's never any consequences, nor it would seem any fear of consequences.

FF nearly destroyed the country and many of its ministers chose to not even run again so as to avoid any judgement, but still go on to collect a pension and exploit all the contacts they made - look at Cowen as a board member in Topaz, for example.

So, back to Jefferson - our politicians don't fear us, their pensions and good name are protected by the constitution they wrote, the absolute WORST thing the citizens can do is NOT vote for them and send them off to an early retirement with time to ring the names on the Rolodex and exploit their experience.

Kenny has literally obstructed justice by sitting on the Moriarty Report until it passed it's statute date. There seems to be nothing we can do - in 12 months he'll retire, take a handful of pensions and live out the rest of his days in state funded luxury.

If they don't fear is how can we ever get real liberty or democracy.


And our media. Don't give them a pass on this.
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,185
The media are an essential part of maintaining the rot.

The performamce of the IT BS ( business supplement ) giving glorious reviews before 2007 to an entire series of gangsters.

Or the property mania. And the bank share mania.

The media are the toilet paper that cleans the mess of corruption so that nobody will see it.
I have come to the conclusion that neither we nor the media themselves appreciate just how big a part of this they are, don't rock the boat but think of the advertising is the mantra reinforced by the fact that if a journalist knocks anybody then they'll be stepping on the toes of someone else close to them or their employer.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top