How to control excessive expensive medical treatments that threaten to consume government budgets as populations age

Dame_Enda

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I think lifestyle changes like healthier eating and reducing alcoholism are part of this. It would reduce demand for these operations if successful.
 


Pizza Man

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My mate the X-Ray specialist is fed up with GPs sending loads of healthy patients to have unnecessary scans and x-rays, just in case they get sued for negligence.

It's called defensive medicine and it is happening because of Ireland's insane compensation culture. The culprits are the ambulance chasing vultures from the Law Library - some of whom later switch sides and become the judges who award the compo.


"Defensive medicine, also called defensive medical decision making, refers to the practice of recommending a diagnostic test or medical treatment that is not necessarily the best option for the patient, but an option that mainly serves the function to protect the physician against the patient as potential plaintiff. Defensive medicine is a reaction to the rising costs of malpractice insurance premiums and patients’ biases on suing for missed or delayed diagnosis or treatment but not for being overdiagnosed. U.S. physicians are at highest risk of being sued, and overtreatment is common. The number of lawsuits against physicians in the USA has increased within the last decades and has had a substantial impact on the behavior of physicians and medical practice. Physicians order tests and avoid treating high-risk patients to reduce their exposure to lawsuits, or are forced to discontinue practicing because of overly high insurance premiums.[1] This behavior has become known as defensive medicine, "a deviation from sound medical practice that is indicated primarily by a threat of liability"." [Wiki]
 

ruman

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Medicine is getting more and more advanced and with those advancements it's getting more and more expensive. At one point I was prescribed a treatment that meant taking 2 injections per month, those injections cost 500 euro each. They are becoming more commonly used because they are extremely effective and can make an enormous difference to the quality of someone's life. The cost of the medicines is something that needs to be tackled because in the long term the cost will continue to rise.
I'm not really disagreeing with you as there is an element of truth in this however in almost all industries costs have dropped enormously over the last 20 years. The exceptions are health and education. The prime reason for this is they exist to serve those employed in the industries rather then end users as happens in all other industries.
 

fifilawe

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Don't gallstones disappear gradually without treatment in most cases?
I am not a doctor but I thought the stones were blasted with sound waves/sonic booms .Something similar is done with kidney stones and the patient passes the crushed stone in the urine. If there are multiple stones of various sizes to blast to tiny pieces ,it would take many sessions to get rid of all the "sand pit of mini-stones" in the gall bladder.
 

Lagertha

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I'm not really disagreeing with you as there is an element of truth in this however in almost all industries costs have dropped enormously over the last 20 years. The exceptions are health and education. The prime reason for this is they exist to serve those employed in the industries rather then end users as happens in all other industries.
Ireland is notorious for paying extortionate sums to drug companies, our representatives don't appear to be trying to negotiate a good deal at all. Industry is a different kettle of fish, a lot of businesses shut down manufacturing in one country and move production to another country with lower labour costs and fewer overheads.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Studies are increasingly identifying stress, diet and a more sedentary lifestyle as the key causes of non-viral or bacterial illnesses.

Many western societies have become trapped in a hamster wheel - work long hours in a stressful job to earn enough to pay taxes to fund the medicine and healthcare services to treat the stress, diet and lifestyle caused illnesses.

It's a vicious cycle - we have to work more to earn more to pay more for more healthcare necessary because we're getting more ill from more stress, poorer diets and too little proper exercise.

Something BIG is required to break the cycle, but something that would threaten the vast empires that pharma, health insurance and medical institutions have become.

I've a kid finishing the leaving today and from 5:30pm he will be able to start forgetting 90% of what he was taught to pass the exams - if 25% of that education was about diet, cooking, exercise, first aid, etc. it would go a long way to reducing the inevitability of getting on the treadmill.

Governments need to take a lead role in genuinely rewarding better lifestyles as opposed to using smoking and drinking as huge revenue earners while raising taxes incrementally to virtue signal.
 

silverharp

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Studies are increasingly identifying stress, diet and a more sedentary lifestyle as the key causes of non-viral or bacterial illnesses.

Many western societies have become trapped in a hamster wheel - work long hours in a stressful job to earn enough to pay taxes to fund the medicine and healthcare services to treat the stress, diet and lifestyle caused illnesses.

It's a vicious cycle - we have to work more to earn more to pay more for more healthcare necessary because we're getting more ill from more stress, poorer diets and too little proper exercise.

Something BIG is required to break the cycle, but something that would threaten the vast empires that pharma, health insurance and medical institutions have become.

I've a kid finishing the leaving today and from 5:30pm he will be able to start forgetting 90% of what he was taught to pass the exams - if 25% of that education was about diet, cooking, exercise, first aid, etc. it would go a long way to reducing the inevitability of getting on the treadmill.

Governments need to take a lead role in genuinely rewarding better lifestyles as opposed to using smoking and drinking as huge revenue earners while raising taxes incrementally to virtue signal.
A lot of lifestyle costs , the gov food pyramid is wrong for example. People aren't sleeping enough is another ,notable that 2 well known world leaders that prided themselves on only sleeping 5 hrs a night ended up with Alzheimer's
 

Patslatt1

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My mate the X-Ray specialist is fed up with GPs sending loads of healthy patients to have unnecessary scans and x-rays, just in case they get sued for negligence.

It's called defensive medicine and it is happening because of Ireland's insane compensation culture. The culprits are the ambulance chasing vultures from the Law Library - some of whom later switch sides and become the judges who award the compo.


"Defensive medicine, also called defensive medical decision making, refers to the practice of recommending a diagnostic test or medical treatment that is not necessarily the best option for the patient, but an option that mainly serves the function to protect the physician against the patient as potential plaintiff. Defensive medicine is a reaction to the rising costs of malpractice insurance premiums and patients’ biases on suing for missed or delayed diagnosis or treatment but not for being overdiagnosed. U.S. physicians are at highest risk of being sued, and overtreatment is common. The number of lawsuits against physicians in the USA has increased within the last decades and has had a substantial impact on the behavior of physicians and medical practice. Physicians order tests and avoid treating high-risk patients to reduce their exposure to lawsuits, or are forced to discontinue practicing because of overly high insurance premiums.[1] This behavior has become known as defensive medicine, "a deviation from sound medical practice that is indicated primarily by a threat of liability"." [Wiki]
REASONABLE DOUBT DEFENCE
Maybe legislation could allow doctors to practice without defensive medicine within the bounds of a reasonable doubt as in criminal cases instead of the harder to defend balance of probabilities in civil cases.
 

Patslatt1

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Ireland is notorious for paying extortionate sums to drug companies, our representatives don't appear to be trying to negotiate a good deal at all. Industry is a different kettle of fish, a lot of businesses shut down manufacturing in one country and move production to another country with lower labour costs and fewer overheads.
Pharmaceuticals is one of our biggest manufacturing industries,hence the leniency on prices.
 

making waves

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See https://www.brookings.edu/blog/usc-brookings-schaeffer-on-health-policy/2015/05/08/5-things-atul-gawande-learned-on-his-return-to-mcallen-tx/

This doctor's highly insightful research points the way to controlling excessive expensive medical treatments that threaten to consume government budgets as populations age.. Surprisingly, government financed health care isn't necessarily cost efficient.
Privatised healthcare is the most expensive in the world

If you want to treat people in the cheapest and most efficient way possible then you create a health service free at the point of delivery to everyone.
 

Patslatt1

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Studies are increasingly identifying stress, diet and a more sedentary lifestyle as the key causes of non-viral or bacterial illnesses.

Many western societies have become trapped in a hamster wheel - work long hours in a stressful job to earn enough to pay taxes to fund the medicine and healthcare services to treat the stress, diet and lifestyle caused illnesses.

It's a vicious cycle - we have to work more to earn more to pay more for more healthcare necessary because we're getting more ill from more stress, poorer diets and too little proper exercise.

Something BIG is required to break the cycle, but something that would threaten the vast empires that pharma, health insurance and medical institutions have become.

I've a kid finishing the leaving today and from 5:30pm he will be able to start forgetting 90% of what he was taught to pass the exams - if 25% of that education was about diet, cooking, exercise, first aid, etc. it would go a long way to reducing the inevitability of getting on the treadmill.

Governments need to take a lead role in genuinely rewarding better lifestyles as opposed to using smoking and drinking as huge revenue earners while raising taxes incrementally to virtue signal.
LIFELONG BRISK WALKING

That's the best exercise for most people throughout life, not the gym or team sports valuable as they are.

Proper diet can be summed up in a few sentences: avoid salty fatty food and fizzy sugary drinks, eat lots of fruit and vegetables and eat red meat sparingly. Recent advice from a massive international survey strongly advised against eating white flour products and white rice.

To get young people to follow this diet in the age of convenience fast food, school meals and instruction in the basics of cooking are necessary.
 

Patslatt1

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Privatised healthcare is the most expensive in the world

If you want to treat people in the cheapest and most efficient way possible then you create a health service free at the point of delivery to everyone.
Free at the point of delivery doesn't solve spiralling costs barring rationing by queue. A single payer of costs for most people such as the NHS in the UK can control costs crudely but not necessarily efficiently.
 
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Patslatt1

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A lot of lifestyle costs , the gov food pyramid is wrong for example. People aren't sleeping enough is another ,notable that 2 well known world leaders that prided themselves on only sleeping 5 hrs a night ended up with Alzheimer's
Thatcher was pretending not to need sleep to look strong.
 

Dame_Enda

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I think we need to enforce tendering by the health service to cut costs of equipment. The RTE Investigates programme some years ago pointed to cosy cartels.
 

making waves

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Free at the point of delivery doesn't solve spiralling costs barring rationing by queue. A single payer of costs for most people such as the NHS in the UK can control costs crudely but not necessarily efficiently.
You can dramatically cut costs by having a free health system - you don't need all the office staff to process and send out the bills to start with
 

ruman

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Public Accountable. Pretty sure those two words dont come together in Ireland.

The lefties will claim a for profit health service prioritizes profit over people. In reality a public system prioritizes the unions over patients.
We see this when the nurses ring in "sick" after serious incidents in Irish hospitals and the unions support them over patients that in many cases have been left permanently disabled or worse.

Liam Doran is as big an obstacle to improving our health service as Denis O'brien or any fat cat capitalist the lefties like to bash.
Public private, makes no difference as we pay (twice) either way. Most of the public hospitals in Dublin are complete sh*holes. Vincents is the only one I have been in that isnt. Have been in a few private ones and at least they are clean.

The lefties will say that's because the public hospitals lack funding. Unforutnately for the unions "funding" generally means higher salaries and more staff with no improvement in services for patients.

Nothing is "Free" it is only a question of who is paying.

F*ck the unions
F* the Irish Hospital Consultants Association
F*ck Tony Holohan
F*ck the Department of Health
F*ck the HSE
A health service for patients.

Stick that on your poster
 

silverharp

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Thatcher was pretending not to need sleep to look strong.
Its anicdotal either way but lack of sleep and modern diet are likely places to look for degenerative brain diseases. Half of Americans are heading for type 2 , that will be a huge drain on medical budgets
 

silverharp

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You can dramatically cut costs by having a free health system - you don't need all the office staff to process and send out the bills to start with
You should go to Ford with that idea
 


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