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How well trained are teachers in spotting abuse ?


D

Dylan2010

I had a very disturbing story related to me where on the back of an innocuous comment by their child (with no other evidence) the school called social services on the family with the whole shebang of separate interviews and having to pay a doctor for a medical check. Essentially what had happened was that the child’s dad had grabbed the kid to stop them falling after having a bath. This got translated the next day by the child saying “my dad grabbed me by the neck” the teacher then reported it to the principal who clearly did nothing except call social services. The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate.
We have normally told our kids to be open with the teachers but now do I have to consider telling the kids never say anything private to the teacher unless you’ve cleared it with us first? I’d hope my kids teachers are granted the same common sense most of us have but then it begs the question, is their training undermining their common sense, ie instead of looking for a pattern of things being wrong they are being told to report everything? Or was that family simply the unluckiest in Ireland?
For an honest family its hard to think of anything more embarrassing and it may involve the kids having to change schools if the staff cant be trusted to be reasonable. What does it say about social services, have they so little to do that can be called out on a whim?
 

Seanie Lemass

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Nov 26, 2010
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Probably some silly 25 year old who thinks that having a degree equates to having acquired wisdom.
 

crossman

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Feb 16, 2011
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The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate.

First of all, there are many problem families outside of council estates. Having said that, it does appear to have been an over reaction but it can be put down in part to a fear among people in many posts that they will some day be accused of ignoring abuse. A teacher now cannot give a small child a hug if they fall since it could be misconstrued.
 

Prester Jim

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Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
I had a very disturbing story related to me where on the back of an innocuous comment by their child (with no other evidence) the school called social services on the family with the whole shebang of separate interviews and having to pay a doctor for a medical check. Essentially what had happened was that the child’s dad had grabbed the kid to stop them falling after having a bath. This got translated the next day by the child saying “my dad grabbed me by the neck” the teacher then reported it to the principal who clearly did nothing except call social services. The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate.
We have normally told our kids to be open with the teachers but now do I have to consider telling the kids never say anything private to the teacher unless you’ve cleared it with us first? I’d hope my kids teachers are granted the same common sense most of us have but then it begs the question, is their training undermining their common sense, ie instead of looking for a pattern of things being wrong they are being told to report everything? Or was that family simply the unluckiest in Ireland?
For an honest family its hard to think of anything more embarrassing and it may involve the kids having to change schools if the staff cant be trusted to be reasonable. What does it say about social services, have they so little to do that can be called out on a whim?
This is a dangerous attitude, I am married to a social worker and she says it is accepted that abuse is preety much as common in middle class and upper households; they are just a hell of a lot better at hiding it and they know their rights very, very well.
This does seem a bit too quick to jump to conclusions in this case.
However, the new legislation for child protection says it is a criminal offence to not pass on any concerns, better safe then sorry.
 

cricket

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"The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate."
?
 

Mercurial

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Was there a bruise on the child's neck? I can't imagine that sort of situation would be very common. I would rather a teacher be over-zealous if it means catching one abusive parent and putting two other innocent parents through some embarrassment and hassle.
 

Threadser

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Feb 18, 2009
Messages
66
The teacher had no choice but to follow the child protection policy and pass this on to the designated liason person (usually the Principal) in her school. She is obliged by law under the child protection guidelines to do this.
 
D

Dylan2010

This is a dangerous attitude, I am married to a social worker and she says it is accepted that abuse is preety much as common in middle class and upper households; they are just a hell of a lot better at hiding it and they know their rights very, very well.
This does seem a bit too quick to jump to conclusions in this case.
However, the new legislation for child protection says it is a criminal offence to not pass on any concerns, better safe then sorry.
but accusations based on the most flimsy of evidence could damage families or family's relationship with the school. Any primary teacher at least should have a reasonable sense of a kid's demeanour changing or getting a sense of things not being quite right, or in a situation like above the teacher can always chat to the child and what not to see if there is any concern to be had. People would be on to a solicitor if a shop accued someone in the wrong of shoplifting, how much worse is it to be accused of abuse?
 
D

Dylan2010

"The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate."
?


there is a statistical link between poverty and abuse

Poverty and child maltreatment

Key points:


•a number of prevalence and incidence studies have highlighted the link between poverty and some forms of child maltreatment, especially neglect, emotional and physical abuse


•while the research shows an association between neglect and poverty, it does not mean that poverty causes neglect or abuse - the majority of families living in poverty do not maltreat their children and parent effectively


•there are no large-scale studies that specifically examine the nature of the relationship between poverty and child maltreatment in the UK, but the most common explanation centres on the stress factors associated with poverty and social deprivation, which are further compounded if drug misuse and mental health issues come into play.
 

AshIrl

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Jan 15, 2011
Messages
51
but accusations based on the most flimsy of evidence could damage families or family's relationship with the school. Any primary teacher at least should have a reasonable sense of a kid's demeanour changing or getting a sense of things not being quite right, or in a situation like above the teacher can always chat to the child and what not to see if there is any concern to be had. People would be on to a solicitor if a shop accued someone in the wrong of shoplifting, how much worse is it to be accused of abuse?



Teachers legally have to report any incident brought to their attention to the Designated Person in their school under Child Protection Guidelines - normally to the Principal. If the school decided not to bother reporting the incident and then something more serious happened would you not then say the school were wrong to ignore the first incident? No one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors - what should the school have done? Ring the potential abuser and accept their version of events! - teachers are not trained to deal with such incidents so reporting anything suspicious is all they can do.
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
[/B]


Teachers legally have to report any incident brought to their attention to the Designated Person in their school under Child Protection Guidelines - normally to the Principal. If the school decided not to bother reporting the incident and then something more serious happened would you not then say the school were wrong to ignore the first incident? No one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors - what should the school have done? Ring the potential abuser and accept their version of events! - teachers are not trained to deal with such incidents so reporting anything suspicious is all they can do.
Yup. It's not their job to investigate abuse claims, it's their job to escalate claims to the appropriate parties. If the child misspoke and simply told the teacher "My dad grabbed me by the neck" then it sounds like they took appropriate steps.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
44,414
[/B]


Teachers legally have to report any incident brought to their attention to the Designated Person in their school under Child Protection Guidelines - normally to the Principal. If the school decided not to bother reporting the incident and then something more serious happened would you not then say the school were wrong to ignore the first incident? No one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors - what should the school have done? Ring the potential abuser and accept their version of events! - teachers are not trained to deal with such incidents so reporting anything suspicious is all they can do.
Now therefor every sane parent must instruct its child never ever to reveal or discuss any matter that occurs in the family home with any teacher.

The reason for this is that any knowledge of any event within the home , on the basis of a casual,careless or uninformed remark by a child must be reported.

In creating this foul climate of suspicion the lucrative child protection industry has further alienated and balkanized Irish society
 
D

Dylan2010

[/B]


Teachers legally have to report any incident brought to their attention to the Designated Person in their school under Child Protection Guidelines - normally to the Principal. If the school decided not to bother reporting the incident and then something more serious happened would you not then say the school were wrong to ignore the first incident? No one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors - what should the school have done? Ring the potential abuser and accept their version of events! - teachers are not trained to deal with such incidents so reporting anything suspicious is all they can do.
it does seem like we are importing the worst of UK social work practices ie protocol driven and "do not engage brain". I'm gathering that I might have to have a word with the kids then? explain to them that their teachers are a bit dumb and will take everything said as absolute fact....
 

ger12

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
I had a very disturbing story related to me where on the back of an innocuous comment by their child (with no other evidence) the school called social services on the family with the whole shebang of separate interviews and having to pay a doctor for a medical check. Essentially what had happened was that the child’s dad had grabbed the kid to stop them falling after having a bath. This got translated the next day by the child saying “my dad grabbed me by the neck” the teacher then reported it to the principal who clearly did nothing except call social services. The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate.
We have normally told our kids to be open with the teachers but now do I have to consider telling the kids never say anything private to the teacher unless you’ve cleared it with us first? I’d hope my kids teachers are granted the same common sense most of us have but then it begs the question, is their training undermining their common sense, ie instead of looking for a pattern of things being wrong they are being told to report everything? Or was that family simply the unluckiest in Ireland?
For an honest family its hard to think of anything more embarrassing and it may involve the kids having to change schools if the staff cant be trusted to be reasonable. What does it say about social services, have they so little to do that can be called out on a whim?
Emm, I think your line about "The family in question are a normal family and not some problem family on a council estate" says a lot about you.

Safe not sorry.
 

ger12

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
Now therefor every sane parent must instruct its child never ever to reveal or discuss any matter that occurs in the family home with any teacher.

The reason for this is that any knowledge of any event within the home , on the basis of a casual,careless or uninformed remark by a child must be reported.

In creating this foul climate of suspicion the lucrative child protection industry has further alienated and balkanized Irish society
Children should be seen and not heard FM? Parents are above suspicion?
 

pippakin

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,665
With our child abuse history I would say our teachers are worse than useless at spotting abuse and now at the other extreme there are the over zealous pc eejits who call social services at the drop of a hat.

A teacher should base their concerns on the overall behaviour and appearance of children because an abused child has likely been told to keep the secret or else.
 

RightCentreLeft

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Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
928
I had first hand experience of this before. My 2 year old had bruises on his upper thighs and which we suspected where from him constantly trying to climb over the safety gate on the stairs or trying to climb from his highchair. We werent sure and were concerned so we brought him to our GP. GP told us that because the brusing was 'unexplained' we would be obliged to bring him to hospital for an examination. We brought him to hospital waited the usual few hours to see a doctor. We were questioned by a social worker. After 30 mins a decision was made to allow us go home because after 10 mins with my son the social worker could see how hyper he was. He even managed to injure himself while she was taking to us as he was running around the room. We were both terrified about what was going to happen. Our son is now 4 and is still very hyper. We also have a 2 year old daughter and if she falls or bangs her head she will immediately blame the nearest person beside her. So she will often run over to me and say 'mammy hit me' just because mammy was the closest person to her at the time she fell!

I think like everything else in life a balance has to be struck between protecting children and avoiding false accusations of abuse against parents.
 

GrainneDee

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Joined
Oct 12, 2011
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With our child abuse history I would say our teachers are worse than useless at spotting abuse and now at the other extreme there are the over zealous pc eejits who call social services at the drop of a hat.

A teacher should base their concerns on the overall behaviour and appearance of children because an abused child has likely been told to keep the secret or else.
A teacher has no choice. A teacher, youth worker or anyone working with young or vulnerable people, HAS to report anything suspicious. That is the law. If they do not report, and it turns out that there was something going on, the individual concerned is in serious trouble.

If a family has nothing to hide, the should be delighted that the school was so vigilant, even if it causes trouble and expense. At least they know the system is working.
 

GrainneDee

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Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
27,318
With our child abuse history I would say our teachers are worse than useless at spotting abuse and now at the other extreme there are the over zealous pc eejits who call social services at the drop of a hat.

A teacher should base their concerns on the overall behaviour and appearance of children because an abused child has likely been told to keep the secret or else.
A teacher has no choice. A teacher, youth worker or anyone working with young or vulnerable people, HAS to report anything suspicious. That is the law. If they do not report, and it turns out that there was something going on, the individual concerned is in serious trouble.

If a family has nothing to hide, the should be delighted that the school was so vigilant, even if it causes trouble and expense. At least they know the system is working.
 
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