How will you vote on the new EU Treaty?

FutureTaoiseach

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How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

- Automatic fines and the removal of all voting rights in EU institutions for persistant breach of the 3% deficit guidelines. These will be automatic unless 55% of member state governments including over 65% of the EU's population vote to block them.

- the creation of a permanent bailout-fund for member states.

I will most certainly be voting no to such a treacherous contraption because removing all voting rights from a member state would mean taxation without representation. It would mean that Ireland would effectively be governed by the other member states and would have literally no say over EU laws passed for us by them. In short: it would be like the Act of Union if Ireland had no MPs in the House of Commons. It is worse than Vichyism. It comes close to moral treason. The men and women of 1916 would have died for nothing.

The proposal is especially galling given that the EU and the pro-Lisbon political-parties have broken the promise of "Yes to Lisbon - Yes to Jobs". Unemployment has risen substantially since Lisbon. Part of the blame for the recession lies at Brussels' door for imposing open-door immigration between Ireland and the cheap-labour zones of Eastern Europe which resulted in an estimated 15% of housing-demand coming from foreign-nationals. Brian Lenihan has now admitted twice on Newstalk that the abundance of cheap labour was a factor in the housing crash. The pro-cyclical interest rates of 2-5% at a time (1999-2007) of approximately 10% economic growth per annum resulted in reckless borrowing and a housing-bubble of spectacular-proportions. The CSO has stated that the economy has returned to its pre-2003 size. EU Enlargement to Eastern Europe began in 2004 and hence, we have gained nothing from EU Enlargement economically except for 80,000 Accession state nationals on the dole.

In that context, it has become clear to any objective observer that to accede to the Merkel-Sarkozy Pact is the constitutional-equivalent of a battered wife returning constantly to her husband. I speak in metaphorical terms of course. The EU has destroyed the Irish economy with pro-cyclical, Franco-German interest-rates and unsustainable mass-immigration of cheap labour. Of course, it is the policies I am blaming and not the immigrants. But I will not be cowed by the Dublin 4 PC brigade in expressing my opinions. Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.
 


eoghanacht

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It doesn't matter how we vote. Have you learned nothing
 

vanla sighs

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That would be a NON/NEIN/NO ;)
 
Last edited:

west'sawake

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How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

- Automatic fines and the removal of all voting rights in EU institutions for persistant breach of the 3% deficit guidelines. These will be automatic unless 55% of member state governments including over 65% of the EU's population vote to block them.

- the creation of a permanent bailout-fund for member states.

I will most certainly be voting no to such a treacherous contraption because removing all voting rights from a member state would mean taxation without representation. It would mean that Ireland would effectively be governed by the other member states and would have literally no say over EU laws passed for us by them. In short: it would be like the Act of Union if Ireland had no MPs in the House of Commons. It is worse than Vichyism. It comes close to moral treason. The men and women of 1916 would have died for nothing.

The proposal is especially galling given that the EU and the pro-Lisbon political-parties have broken the promise of "Yes to Lisbon - Yes to Jobs". Unemployment has risen substantially since Lisbon. Part of the blame for the recession lies at Brussels' door for imposing open-door immigration between Ireland and the cheap-labour zones of Eastern Europe which resulted in an estimated 15% of housing-demand coming from foreign-nationals. Brian Lenihan has now admitted twice on Newstalk that the abundance of cheap labour was a factor in the housing crash. The pro-cyclical interest rates of 2-5% at a time (1999-2007) of approximately 10% economic growth per annum resulted in reckless borrowing and a housing-bubble of spectacular-proportions. The CSO has stated that the economy has returned to its pre-2003 size. EU Enlargement to Eastern Europe began in 2004 and hence, we have gained nothing from EU Enlargement economically except for 80,000 Accession state nationals on the dole.

In that context, it has become clear to any objective observer that to accede to the Merkel-Sarkozy Pact is the constitutional-equivalent of a battered wife returning constantly to her husband. I speak in metaphorical terms of course. The EU has destroyed the Irish economy with pro-cyclical, Franco-German interest-rates and unsustainable mass-immigration of cheap labour. Of course, it is the policies I am blaming and not the immigrants. But I will not be cowed by the Dublin 4 PC brigade in expressing my opinions. Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.

Great post, but I think the immigrants are as much victims as ourselves.
 

TommyO'Brien

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How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

. . .
So after years of spoofing about how Lisbon was supposedly self-amending, you finally admit that it isn't and there would still have to be a referendum.

Well that is progress.

BTW there is no new treaty. Two leaders want one. Most of the rest of Europe is likely to suggest they stick the proposed treaty where the sun don't shine.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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So after years of spoofing about how Lisbon was supposedly self-amending, you finally admit that it isn't and there would still have to be a referendum.

Well that is progress.
No I didn't. The elites may decide to hold one but since Lisbon it is not required (especially given the new "commitment to the European Union" in Article 29 of the Irish Constitution). Experience in other member states is that such language effectively constitutes a blank cheque.
BTW there is no new treaty. Two leaders want one. Most of the rest of Europe is likely to suggest they stick the proposed treaty where the sun don't shine.
Well the IT say its all but inevitable.

So TOB, how would you vote? ;)
 

kerdasi amaq

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If they can avoid holding a referendum; they surely will. So as not to give me another chance to vote NO.
 

TommyO'Brien

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No I didn't. The elites may decide to hold one but since Lisbon it is not required (especially given the new "commitment to the European Union" in Article 29 of the Irish Constitution). Experience in other member states is that such language effectively constitutes a blank cheque.
It means nothing of the sort.

Well the IT say its all but inevitable.
A tip, FT. Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers. Seriously. It is amazing how wrong the papers get things. In my experience the papers are wrong around 70% of the time.

So TOB, how would you vote? ;)
Are you serious? You want me to tell you how I would vote on a mythical treaty that does not exist let alone having been written or legally analysed?:eek:

That is a ridiculous question.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Can we ask them to repeat the question if Ireland votes yes???
 

vanla sighs

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Ah, memories.........



 

Gobuchul

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I think that as a proud, independent & intelligent irishman, I should vote how I'm told to vote. I mean, lets be honest, I've come to the realisation that I'm to blame for the disaster that has befallen this nation and by extension the rest of europe
.
Its true that I've never actually cast a vote for a member of FF, but we, the ordinary people kept voting them in, so Im sorry for that. I'm not a banker nor a developer, but I have used banks and buildings. I do of course work in the construction industry, so really I should have known 18 years ago when the CAO tricked me into engineering that the bust would come. I've never really lived beyond my means, but sure werent we all losing the run of our selves with private education for the kids, SUVs and foreign homes etc, although I only have one home with a mortgage, my kids admittedly are a drain on the local primary school and my car is 11 years old, but we are all still culpable.

So I'll vote for what is in the best interest of the people of ireland , so that's why I'll vote (to be advised) on the day of the referendum, should they choose to give us one.
 

NYCKY

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In fairness, it doesn't really matter how anyone votes, any potential treaty vote will be run and rerun until the correct result is achieved.

On a sidenote, I think the main reason that other EU countries don't have these referenda, is they probably like at the local politics.fr or politics.dk etc and realize that most of the ordinary joes and marys can't separate the issues and use such votes to punish the sitting governments :)
 

He3

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How to vote on having no vote.

This is a hard one.

The reports say the treaty change would allow for our voting rights to be taken away if we break certain rules. Those rules can be made even if we don't like them maybe?

Open to advice here....
 

jacko

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I'll be voting Yes if I'm a member of the Dail or Seanad because there is no need for a referendum - it will be ratified by a European Union amendment Bill.

The proposed changes are all anticipated by existing membership and would not fall under the very narrow grounds set out by the majority in the Crotty judgment

and if you have a problem with that - then challenge it up to the Supreme Court and I'm sure they'll give the same answer
 


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