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How would you like to cut the deficit for 2013 ?


Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
The budget is coming up on Dec 5th. I think its clear that the FG/Labour cabinet have no willingness to fix the deficit. Tinkering around the edges is the order of the day. The Govt have neither the vision or courage to balance the budget and fix the unemployment situation. After all they just want an easy time until they are pensioned off.:-x

I read next month’s budget will involve €3.5 billion in both taxes and spending cuts, comprising of €1.25 billion in taxes and charges and a further €2.25 billion in spending cuts.

Here is a table of expenditure for the most expensive line items over the last few years.

Type
2009201020112012est
Social Welfare€6,850€8,400€8,840€9,510
Health€8,840€7,800€8,600€8,490
Education€5,130€5,070€4,980€5,060
Total€20,820€21,270€22,420€23,060
Change-2%5%3%

Spending on these 3 has increased 10% in the last 3 years and 3% in the last year.

This government has shown so far they are not capable of mending the economy. I read in Business plus magazine, from March 2011 to August 2012 state expenditure exceeded income by 34.3 Billion Euros.:shock: Also we should note from this the claims that there is Austerity by left wing politicians and media commentators is false.

Enda rather than collecting awards for European of the Year should be concentrating on convincing the people that he is capable of running an industrialised country. This means acting responsibly, taking hard decisions and not relying on a compromised senior civil service for advise. Enda should realise by now that FG and Labour are going to be totally hated by the end of their term - so theres no reason not to do the right things fiscally.

Gilmore is not really worth mentioning, he wants to resume Aid to Uganda when they 'repay' the money stolen and his main concern at the moment is gay marriage it would appear from his press coverage.

This is what I would like them to do which they wont in the Budget because certain items seem untouchable.

1) Scrap Croke park and make the following cuts in pay saving 1.27 billion per annum.


Pay_BottomPay_TopNum EmployedAverage_PayTotal_Spend%_Spend%_Staff Saving%_Cut
€0€20,000 18,350€17,375€318,831,2503%6%€0.000%
€20,000€30,000 33,686€24,250€816,885,5006%12%€0.000%
€30,000€40,000 78,536€33,250€2,611,322,00021%27%€130,566,1005%
€40,000€50,000 69,010€42,250€2,915,672,50023%24%€291,567,25010%
€50,000€60,000 40,467€51,250€2,073,933,75016%14%€248,872,05012%
€60,000€70,000 23,182€60,225€1,396,135,95011%8%€209,420,39315%
€70,000€80,000 13,665€69,175€945,276,3758%5%€141,791,45615%
€80,000€90,000 6,255€78,125€488,671,8754%2%€78,187,50016%
€90,000€100,000 3,041€87,075€264,795,0752%1%€42,367,21216%
€100,000€125,000 2,112€102,738€216,982,6562%1%€32,547,39815%
€125,000€150,000 975€125,113€121,985,1751%0%€21,957,33218%
€150,000 and Over 2,721€158,675€431,754,6753%1%€77,715,84218%
Totals: 292,000€12,602,246,781100%100%€1,274,992,53210%

2) 639 million in foreign aid will be spent in 2012, cut this to 100 Million in emergency Aid, this will save a further 539 million in Aid per annum.

With this 1.8 Billion, use a billion to reduce fuel levies, this would reduce the price of petrol/diesel I figure to close to a euro per litre. This would be a great "stimulus"(in fact reducing an unjust burdon on people) for business and the public in general. the remaining 800 million can be added to the general adjustment of 3.5Bn.

Wondering what Budget suggestions posters here may have?
 

runwiththewind

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,697
The budget is coming up on Dec 5th. I think its clear that the FG/Labour cabinet have no willingness to fix the deficit. Tinkering around the edges is the order of the day. The Govt have neither the vision or courage to balance the budget and fix the unemployment situation. After all they just want an easy time until they are pensioned off.:-x

I read next month’s budget will involve €3.5 billion in both taxes and spending cuts, comprising of €1.25 billion in taxes and charges and a further €2.25 billion in spending cuts.

Here is a table of expenditure for the most expensive line items over the last few years.

Type
2009201020112012est
Social Welfare€6,850€8,400€8,840€9,510
Health€8,840€7,800€8,600€8,490
Education€5,130€5,070€4,980€5,060
Total€20,820€21,270€22,420€23,060
Change-2%5%3%

Spending on these 3 has increased 10% in the last 3 years and 3% in the last year.

This government has shown so far they are not capable of mending the economy. I read in Business plus magazine, from March 2011 to August 2012 state expenditure exceeded income by 34.3 Billion Euros.:shock: Also we should note from this the claims that there is Austerity by left wing politicians and media commentators is false.

Enda rather than collecting awards for European of the Year should be concentrating on convincing the people that he is capable of running an industrialised country. This means acting responsibly, taking hard decisions and not relying on a compromised senior civil service for advise. Enda should realise by now that FG and Labour are going to be totally hated by the end of their term - so theres no reason not to do the right things fiscally.

Gilmore is not really worth mentioning, he wants to resume Aid to Uganda when they 'repay' the money stolen and his main concern at the moment is gay marriage it would appear from his press coverage.

This is what I would like them to do which they wont in the Budget because certain items seem untouchable.

1) Scrap Croke park and make the following cuts in pay saving 1.27 billion per annum.


Pay_BottomPay_TopNum EmployedAverage_PayTotal_Spend%_Spend%_StaffSaving%_Cut
€0€20,000 18,350€17,375€318,831,2503%6%€0.000%
€20,000€30,000 33,686€24,250€816,885,5006%12%€0.000%
€30,000€40,000 78,536€33,250€2,611,322,00021%27%€130,566,1005%
€40,000€50,000 69,010€42,250€2,915,672,50023%24%€291,567,25010%
€50,000€60,000 40,467€51,250€2,073,933,75016%14%€248,872,05012%
€60,000€70,000 23,182€60,225€1,396,135,95011%8%€209,420,39315%
€70,000€80,000 13,665€69,175€945,276,3758%5%€141,791,45615%
€80,000€90,000 6,255€78,125€488,671,8754%2%€78,187,50016%
€90,000€100,000 3,041€87,075€264,795,0752%1%€42,367,21216%
€100,000€125,000 2,112€102,738€216,982,6562%1%€32,547,39815%
€125,000€150,000 975€125,113€121,985,1751%0%€21,957,33218%
€150,000 and Over 2,721€158,675€431,754,6753%1%€77,715,84218%
Totals: 292,000€12,602,246,781100%100%€1,274,992,53210%

2) 639 million in foreign aid will be spent in 2012, cut this to 100 Million in emergency Aid, this will save a further 539 million in Aid per annum.

With this 1.8 Billion, use a billion to reduce fuel levies, this would reduce the price of petrol/diesel I figure to close to a euro per litre. This would be a great "stimulus"(in fact reducing an unjust burdon on people) for business and the public in general. the remaining 800 million can be added to the general adjustment of 3.5Bn.

Wondering what Budget suggestions posters here may have?
If you think I'm taking another pay cut you out of you mind. I'm already down €550 since 2010. Tell me how much you earn and I'll tell you how much your salary should be cut.

Funny how you would take 5% from those under €40,000 and 10% from those between 40 and 50. That's double, yet only take 18% from those up to 150,000 and the same for those over 150,000. You make straight for the middle income earners because of their greater numbers. Well you can go ....... off. Touch the middle income again and we will shut this county down indefinitely.

I take it you are also in the transport business or travel a lot for you 150,000 + income.

Explain that logic please.
 

Truth.ie

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
28,077
Stand down the Defence Forces.
Sell all our military stock except small arms (for use by voluntary militia groups) .
Save 2.5 Billion per year plus what is made on the assets sales.
Lease our ports to the Russian Navy in exchange for their oil and/or natural gas.
 

APettigrew92

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,685
Firstly, TD's Wages. The President's too. And pensions.

Then retroactively reduce the pensions of ex-TD's, many of whom are retiring on salaries neither deserved nor sustainable. Especially with regard to the likes of Cowen, Flynn and Ahern.

Then with the extravagant benefits of the Public Sector, which has always been a shambles. All the grants in the world couldn't make it more efficient and they do very little to justify the maintenance of such.

Then of Bankers, many of whom exceed €500,000. How on earth this particular excess has somehow persisted is beyond me.

Cut the Social Welfare to long-term unemployed who have shown no desire to improve their lot. It should never be the case that it is more lucrative to be unemployed and receive almost as much as individuals who work 20hours a week and contribute in some way to the maintenance of this farce.

Then and only then would I look towards the people.

Because if, as the Government currently think, you choose to constantly burden the many with the responsibility of the few, if you persist in throwing disgusting amounts of wealth at undeserving and incapable individuals, then you only create more resentment.

This burden is either served equally or not at all.

But that's just me.
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
The answer is very simple: cutting the deficit is impossible by definition.

You can impose cuts, but they shrink your tax income by shrinking the overall economy. So the money you had hoped to raise in tax in order to pay towards reducing the deficit... is never collected.

And as you never collect it, you can't use it to pay towards deficit reduction.

No matter how much you cut, the economy always shrinks down to the point where tax revenue is less than expenditure, time and time again without exception.
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
Cutting spending to try to reduce a deficit during a global slump is about as sensible as a sailor who spots a leak and immediately punches another hole below the waterline to allow the water to flow out.
 

Dublin 4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,993
Wondering what Budget suggestions posters here may have?
A lot of food for thought in the OP- lets see if/how the Fiscal Cliff & EZ Crisis modify the Govt's plans
 

R3volution_R3ady

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,370
If you think I'm taking another pay cut you out of you mind. I'm already down €550 since 2010. Tell me how much you earn and I'll tell you how much your salary should be cut.

Funny how you would take 5% from those under €40,000 and 10% from those between 40 and 50. That's double, yet only take 18% from those up to 150,000 and the same for those over 150,000. You make straight for the middle income earners because of their greater numbers. Well you can go ....... off. Touch the middle income again and we will shut this county down indefinitely.

I take it you are also in the transport business or travel a lot for you 150,000 + income.

Explain that logic please.
Here's the logic for you, but careful now...it might hit you like a tonne of bricks.

The public sector doesn't produce anything of worth whatsoever. It is funded by money stolen from the private sector. Therefore, if one finds him/herself in the private sector and paying taxes then he/she has every right to show their displeasure at the muppets their money is being used to hire. I'm so sick of this public service entitlement bullshit...you're entitled to NOTHING! You only live off whatever is plundered from productive people keeping this economy afloat, only just. If you really had any principle, you would help Ireland out by going into the private sector where you can actually be productive.
 

alloverbartheshouting

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
7,937
Here's the logic for you, but careful now...it might hit you like a tonne of bricks.

The public sector doesn't produce anything of worth whatsoever. It is funded by money stolen from the private sector. Therefore, if one finds him/herself in the private sector and paying taxes then he/she has every right to show their displeasure at the muppets their money is being used to hire. I'm so sick of this public service entitlement bullshit...you're entitled to NOTHING! You only live off whatever is plundered from productive people keeping this economy afloat, only just. If you really had any principle, you would help Ireland out by going into the private sector where you can actually be productive.
:roll: Was actually going to bother to reply in detail to your post but then realised that you've obviously been on the sauce.
 

Oblivion.

Well-known member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
375
Double tariffs on imported goods from outside the EU and halve taxes on businesses who manufacture products in Ireland. Across-the-board public sector wage cut of 4% in 2013, followed by a further 2% in 2014. Food stamps instead of cash-only dole payments. Use the money saved to pay for training of young Irish unemployed in industries crying out for qualified workers e.g healthcare system. Immediate suspension of all unskilled immigration from outside European Union. Stop importing Filipino nurses and instead train some of our 400,000 unemployed to fill labour shortages.
 
Last edited:

Insole

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
516
Reduce all SW payments by 10% per year, every year per recipient. Plough half of these savings back into health and education.

And eliminate buspasses and other freebies.
 

Oblivion.

Well-known member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
375
Increase the state pension age from 66 to 68 for all people currently under the age of 55. And to 70 for everyone currently under 45 years old.
 

TheWexfordInn

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Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
12,144
The answer is very simple: cutting the deficit is impossible by definition.

You can impose cuts, but they shrink your tax income by shrinking the overall economy. So the money you had hoped to raise in tax in order to pay towards reducing the deficit... is never collected.
And as you never collect it, you can't use it to pay towards deficit reduction.

No matter how much you cut, the economy always shrinks down to the point where tax revenue is less than expenditure, time and time again without exception.
Yes when you cut back you go into a downward spiral, but not forever. As the spiral descends and businesses that can no longer create enough revenue to meet costs go bust, new businesses opportunities are created for companies that can operate more productively in this new lower cost environment, and the creation of these businesses then stops the downward spiral and economic growth resumes.
Of course the ideal would have been not to inflate costs and Government expenditure in the good times but we are we are and the last policy that should be followed now is to try and maintain current costs and Government expenditure through the accumulation of never end amounts of debt to be passed on to the next gerneration.
 

jmcc

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Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
Well the more extreme solution would be to kill the politicians and bankers responsible for the economic problems - no people, no pensions, no problem. Unfortunately, such logical efficiencies are not allowed and because of the pond scum intellects in power, the country is in trouble for the immediate future.

Regards...jmcc
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,840
I would leave people on €30k-€40k alone and spread that 5% cut between the earners of €60k and €100k.
Those on €125k I would cut by 20%
Those on €150k I would cut by 30%

Effectively a 100% tax on earnings over €100k.

€100k is a very big salary in todays global economy, I dont care what you do. It is enough.
If you do not think it is enough you need to reassess your priorities, you clearly have esteem issues.
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,561
Well the more extreme solution would be to kill the politicians and bankers responsible for the economic problems - no people, no pensions, no problem. Unfortunately, such logical efficiencies are not allowed and because of the pond scum intellects in power, the country is in trouble for the immediate future.

Regards...jmcc
Surely their spouses would have to go too?

We probably need to start culling anyone on welfare for more than two years (too generous?). Anyone over 70 suffering a chronic illness which is costing the state money needs to go too.
 

jmcc

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Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
Surely their spouses would have to go too?
Why? Would you consider that they are implicated? :) I would agree, however, to a financial sippenhaft for politicians, bankers and developers as there was a trend amongst them to transfer properties and assets to their spouses.

Regards...jmcc
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,561
Why? Would you consider that they are implicated? :) I would agree, however, to a financial sippenhaft for politicians, bankers and developers as there was a trend amongst them to transfer properties and assets to their spouses.

Regards...jmcc
Otherwise they might be entitled to a portion of the pension.
 
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