How would you solve the leaving cert/third level problem?

NaturalOnlyPlz

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I would immediately reschedule the leaving cert exams for November. Forget orals and aurals.

As well as having the virus more under control by then this will give time to work out the logistics for how more space will be accommodated so you can have at least 2 metres between desks.

All students must wear masks and practice social distancing. Any students that do not practice social distancing at all time will face severe punishments up to forfeit of the exam.

Universities can decide their own procedures for their exams, ranging from amnesty to a complete pause. The only requirement is they cannot hold large exams until November.
 


Watcher2

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Hold the LC exams in August when the classes are empty. The pool of junior cert invigilatiors are available to cover the additional classes used due to social distancing, in addition to student teachers that are going nowhere for Summer work abroad. So empty schools will provide ample space for social distancing by the use of additional class rooms and you already have additional invigilators to cover the additional rooms used.

No big deal. The argument of kids gathering together is a but vacuous. While in the school they are under the management of the school and social distancing rules enforced. Even if that means not allowing them outside to congregate as suggested. Before and after exams is not the schools problem, its the parents.

The whole thing has been a mess and misdirection is being used as an excuse. Its an absolute disgrace how the LC students are being treated. And now the teachers with the pressure of giving grades to their students in the "LC" predictive grades.
 

Mercurial

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Almost all university exams are being held open-book and online.

The main significance of the Leaving Cert nowadays concerns the link between LC results and third level admissions.

So, under these non-ideal circumstances, we should simply apply the same standards to LC students that are already being applied to third level students.
 

A Voice

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The open book idea is an option. But I wonder if they delayed the LC till mid-August, then applied strict social distancing, if it wouldn't work. Devote first half of September to intensive marking, and have results to universities by third week.

If you think about it, there is hardly any other activity already suited to social distancing quite as much as written public exams, where cheating is prevented by spacing. Just implement strict supermarket-style queuing in and out of exam halls.
 

stopdoingstuff

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Almost all university exams are being held open-book and online.

The main significance of the Leaving Cert nowadays concerns the link between LC results and third level admissions.

So, under these non-ideal circumstances, we should simply apply the same standards to LC students that are already being applied to third level students.
Imagine what it would do for critical thinking if we slowly blended in an open book element from an early age.
 

Uganda

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I would immediately reschedule the leaving cert exams for November. Forget orals and aurals.

As well as having the virus more under control by then this will give time to work out the logistics for how more space will be accommodated so you can have at least 2 metres between desks.

All students must wear masks and practice social distancing. Any students that do not practice social distancing at all time will face severe punishments up to forfeit of the exam.

Universities can decide their own procedures for their exams, ranging from amnesty to a complete pause. The only requirement is they cannot hold large exams until November.
i have yet to hear any good reason why the LC was cancelled.

in the absence of said reason this must rank as the worst decision of the crisis.
 

NaturalOnlyPlz

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The open book idea is an option. But I wonder if they delayed the LC till mid-August, then applied strict social distancing, if it wouldn't work. Devote first half of September to intensive marking, and have results to universities by third week.

If you think about it, there is hardly any other activity already suited to social distancing quite as much as written public exams, where cheating is prevented by spacing. Just implement strict supermarket-style queuing in and out of exam halls.
i have yet to hear any good reason why the LC was cancelled.

in the absence of said reason this must rank as the worst decision of the crisis.
It's a joke. They're reopening schools in the UK in two weeks time, schools around Europe have already been reopened. Ireland are also expected to be opening flights to and from EU countries in the coming weeks.

So you will then have a farcical situation where students in the UK and around Europe will be going to school every day, going in and out of classrooms, meeting in the playground and so on, and yet in Ireland be unable to go into a 100% socially distanced area for a handful of exam papers marking the most important exams of their life.
 

A Voice

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It's a joke. They're reopening schools in the UK in two weeks time, schools around Europe have already been reopened. Ireland are also expected to be opening flights to and from EU countries in the coming weeks.

So you will then have a farcical situation where students in the UK and around Europe will be going to school every day, going in and out of classrooms, meeting in the playground and so on, and yet in Ireland be unable to go into a 100% socially distanced area for a handful of exam papers marking the most important exams of their life.
The predictive grades will be a dis-as-ter. Wait for the ridiculous grade inflation, as every teacher hands out the smarties. No way will anyone fail little Jimmy. May as well go into Witness Protection.
 

Super Caley

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Almost all university exams are being held open-book and online.

The main significance of the Leaving Cert nowadays concerns the link between LC results and third level admissions.

So, under these non-ideal circumstances, we should simply apply the same standards to LC students that are already being applied to third level students.
I'd have gone for the hiring of as many extra halls and extra invigilators as needed, have staggered sittings of pass and honours papers, and maybe remove compulsory Eng Irish Maths with points calculated on say just five subjects. That should keep the numbers on any one sitting down to levels which would have been manageable (from social distancing perspective)
They should have run them in June, so as to allow for a mopping up resits in July for anyone who was self isolating or whatever the first time around.

But maybe your suggestion, of just going open book on line, might be simpler and more practical.

What I find depressing about this whole LC debacle though is the apparent complete lack of even a modicum of flexibility, initiative or imagination on the part of either the department or the teachers
 

NaturalOnlyPlz

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Almost all university exams are being held open-book and online.

The main significance of the Leaving Cert nowadays concerns the link between LC results and third level admissions.

So, under these non-ideal circumstances, we should simply apply the same standards to LC students that are already being applied to third level students.
University exams would be vastly harder to cheat at though due to the material being harder and more specific - this is especially the case for the more important 3rd and 4th years or beyond. So you couldn't find your solutions online so easily or a family member or friend would be less likely to help you. In a pinch it might work at university level, but the leaving cert not really unless the work was already research-driven as in some subjects like history maybe.

What I find depressing about this whole LC debacle though is the apparent complete lack of even a modicum of flexibility, initiative or imagination on the part of either the department or the teachers
It seems amazingly convenient their "plan" just happens to leave themselves and the students (many of whom are no doubt complicit) with the least amount of work (effectively zero) as possible.
 

Mercurial

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University exams would be vastly harder to cheat at though due to the material being harder and more specific - this is especially the case for the more important 3rd and 4th years or beyond. So you couldn't find your solutions online so easily or a family member or friend would be less likely to help you. In a pinch it might work at university level, but the leaving cert not really unless the work was already research-driven as in some subjects like history maybe.
Some measures would help mitigate against that (the exams could be passed through turnitin, for example).
 

Uganda

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I'd have gone for the hiring of as many extra halls and extra invigilators as needed, have staggered sittings of pass and honours papers, and maybe remove compulsory Eng Irish Maths with points calculated on say just five subjects. That should keep the numbers on any one sitting down to levels which would have been manageable (from social distancing perspective)
They should have run them in June, so as to allow for a mopping up resits in July for anyone who was self isolating or whatever the first time around.

But maybe your suggestion, of just going open book on line, might be simpler and more practical.

What I find depressing about this whole LC debacle though is the apparent complete lack of even a modicum of flexibility, initiative or imagination on the part of either the department or the teachers
ALL, thats all, the logistical challenges could have been overcome. There are acres of empty classrooms, thousands of idle people who could invigilator, etc etc.

When theres a will theres a way.

But there was no will.

I dont know if that is the Dept of Ed, or the teachers unions. (One union lover on this site said that the teachers objected becuse of the negative impact on students - that our canard again!!)

I sort of feel they formed an unholy alliance on this one.
 

Super Caley

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It seems amazingly convenient their "plan" just happens to leave themselves and the students (many of whom are no doubt complicit) with the least amount of work (effectively zero) as possible.
Yup, that just about sums it up.

And as for the rest of the school years, there seems to be an attitude of "Shur tis mid May and almost holiday time anyway, so why bother"

If they remotely serious, one thing they could consider in the primary schools at least, would be to declare June a summer holiday month and then reopen on a trial basis in July (Closing again in August). (No one could have any holiday plans as such anyway). That would allow for some trouble shooting of any social distancing stuff, give the epidemiologists some data to work on maybe, and also an opportunity to book end the year, especially for 6th classes who'll be moving on to secondary.

It would also be worth it just to be able to watch the reaction of the teacher's unions to the suggestion that their members might work in July!
 

Uganda

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Yup, that just about sums it up.

And as for the rest of the school years, there seems to be an attitude of "Shur tis mid May and almost holiday time anyway, so why bother"

If they remotely serious, one thing they could consider in the primary schools at least, would be to declare June a summer holiday month and then reopen on a trial basis in July (Closing again in August). (No one could have any holiday plans as such anyway). That would allow for some trouble shooting of any social distancing stuff, give the epidemiologists some data to work on maybe, and also an opportunity to book end the year, especially for 6th classes who'll be moving on to secondary.

It would also be worth it just to be able to watch the reaction of the teacher's unions to the suggestion that their members might work in July!
The teachers will always do what is in the best interests of the pupils.

and pigs will fly
 

reg11

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This thread reminds me of poster gatsbysgirl. Hope she's fine and just got bored with being here? I remember posters winding her up about being heavy ammo from nASTI headquarters anytime there was a topic to do with teachers. When the teacher bashing would start it wouldn't be long until she'd be along to squash it. A really good poster it has to be said.

Yes I do remember how Uganda used to go to town on teachers:)
 


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