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HSE abandons PPARS



Limerick Lad

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Nov 17, 2006
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Heard this decision being discussed on Morning Ireland and the speaker said how despite PPARS computer system failing due to the complexity of the problems encountered, the HSE intended to ask the Department of Finance for the funds to adopt an even more complex computer system to replace PPARS, talk about not learning from problems encountered in the past but then why would they, no politician ever seems to pay the ultimate political price for their failures, dismissal from Ministerial office, they just get moved on to a different Department, Martin Cullen being the prime example of Bertie's failure to sack Ministers for incompetency.
 

drbob1972

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May 1, 2007
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computer consultants through out the country must be delighted at the news
 

cyberianpan

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Fail once=never try again ?

There were reasons why this failed first time, mainly due to poor governance & lack of willingness to tackle organisational reform.

Why not wait until the details come out this time - e.g. RFP/RFT etc - & then cast your eyes over them to see can you find real flaws ?

cYp
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Opposition members on the old health-boards must take their share of responsibility for helping embark on this voyage of stupidity in the first place.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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This is a decision that was just waiting for the election to be over. I expect the dumping of Evoting to follow suit fairly sharpish.

These people don't have the liathroidí for governance. I feel sick.

Anyway, don't blame me, I voted Labour.
 

Wolverine

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Sep 11, 2006
Messages
86
Why? Surely ultimate responsibility rests with the Dept of Health on this one.

And were opposition representatives in a majority on these health boards?
 

bm42

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Jun 15, 2004
Messages
292
I seem to remember hearing a discussion about this in the past that suggested that most of the difficulty with PPARS was due to the fact that they were coding every little local union agreement into the system. Bench marking was a missed opportunity to get rid of all of these silly local agreements and restrictive work practices. If that had been done, the complexity of providing a software solution, similar to what PPARS was intended to be, would have been drastically reduced.
 

gahane

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Jan 12, 2004
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time & Attendence, Rostering and Payroll software is very difficult to do even when local union sgreements aren't an issue. Plus the whole project was just badly managed, designed and coded like most Government IT projects. ROS is about the only exception to the rule.
 

Leftfemme22

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Mar 7, 2007
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The HSE abandons patients, so PPARS should come as no big surprise.
 

Insider2007

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FutureTaoiseach said:
Opposition members on the old health-boards must take their share of responsibility for helping embark on this voyage of stupidity in the first place.
Ah yes. The usual "its really the opposition's fault" excuse.

Rubbish.

Who was in government and provided the funds? FF-PDs

Who was in government and failed to monitor the process? FF-PDs

Who consistently defended PPARS and complained when the opposition expressed doubts? FF-PDs

Who is the person who has been Minister for Health for a number of years, claimed to be a big defender of controlling expenditure, but defended PPARS up to the hilt? Mary Harney.

You know FF and the PDs are embarrassed over something when they try to blame the opposition for their own screw-up. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

JCSkinner

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This was a disgrace from start to finish. Congratulations are due to the Irish Mail on Sunday for first breaking this story, because otherwise God alone knows how many more countless millions would have been wasted.
Foremost among those who ought to be held responsible are a number of senior HSE staff who greenlighted this all the way, when they were in the old Southern Health Board. In light of today's news, why are they still in their jobs?
Harney, as a virulent defender of this system from day one, has once again demonstrated her unsuitability to run the Department of Health.
Legal action should be explored as a method for establishing whether any funds can be retrieved from the mobs of IT consultants that used PPARS to fleece the state.
And the shady off-shore entities that were used to recruit those consultants need to be properly investigated, by both the Gardai and the Revenue Commissioners.
 

cyberianpan

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JCSkinner said:
This was a disgrace from start to finish. Congratulations are due to the Irish Mail on Sunday for first breaking this story, because otherwise God alone knows how many more countless millions would have been wasted.
Foremost among those who ought to be held responsible are a number of senior HSE staff who greenlighted this all the way, when they were in the old Southern Health Board. In light of today's news, why are they still in their jobs?
They are holy civil servants and shall be venerated, it is our solemn duty to bow before them as they don't work for profit so any of their special work is always right & to be treasured by us plebs. But really see next:

JCSkinner said:
Harney, as a virulent defender of this system from day one, has once again demonstrated her unsuitability to run the Department of Health.
She kept signing off on funding extensions until CMOD (Dep of Finance) went over her head to point out project was a failure. The reason it spiralled out of control & kept needing more money was that she wasn't doing her job re organisational reform. So she can't fire HSE staff as she ought be fired herself.

JCSkinner said:
Legal action should be explored as a method for establishing whether any funds can be retrieved from the mobs of IT consultants that used PPARS to fleece the state.
The contracts were "time & materials" - so the consultants bore no risk (bar to their reputation).

JCSkinner said:
And the shady off-shore entities that were used to recruit those consultants need to be properly investigated, by both the Gardai and the Revenue Commissioners.
Hmmmmm

Overall the people who I'd give most blame to are Fine Gael & Labour: PPARS oughta been a big election issue, but they wanted an airy fairy "positive" campaign against an incumbent government in economic good times. PPARS is just one instance of the government's low ability- Harney in particular is frittering away billions & getting no improvements.

cYp
 

JCSkinner

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Fine Gael did a lot of running on this issue at one point. They deserve credit for that. I did see PPARS mentioned a little in the context of government waste, but I concur that they could have made more of an election issue out of it.
The full PPARS narrative of blunder, greed, error, avarice and incompetence is breathtaking.
 

Akrasia

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Oct 6, 2006
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cyberianpan said:
Fail once=never try again ?
cYp
Fail Once? Pulse, PPARS Electronic Voting.

that's 3 IT fiascos off the top of my head that the FF/PD government are directly responsible for.

They don't have a clue what they're doing and are so unbelievably arrogant that they refuse to listen to criticism when offered for free, instead preferring to spend hundreds of millions on 'consultants' who clearly don't know what they're talking about.
 

jake76

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Feb 15, 2007
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334
bm42 said:
I seem to remember hearing a discussion about this in the past that suggested that most of the difficulty with PPARS was due to the fact that they were coding every little local union agreement into the system. Bench marking was a missed opportunity to get rid of all of these silly local agreements and restrictive work practices. If that had been done, the complexity of providing a software solution, similar to what PPARS was intended to be, would have been drastically reduced.
This is true. It's very difficult to build in race days for one thing into a computer system, nodding and winking are extremely difficult to program.
 

Insider2007

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cyberianpan said:
Overall the people who I'd give most blame to are Fine Gael & Labour: PPARS oughta been a big election issue
PPARS was raised in the election by FG, Labour and the Greens. The media ignored all the press releases issued on them. If the media decides that an issue is not important enough to carry, even when the opposition says it is, there is damn all the parties can do on it. They cannot force the media to carry a statement if in their media conferences the print and broadcast media decides the story has no interest to the electorate and that they would prefer to focus on Bert's finances and McDowell's bellowing.
 

Leftfemme22

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Insider2007 said:
cyberianpan said:
Overall the people who I'd give most blame to are Fine Gael & Labour: PPARS oughta been a big election issue
PPARS was raised in the election by FG, Labour and the Greens. The media ignored all the press releases issued on them. If the media decides that an issue is not important enough to carry, even when the opposition says it is, there is damn all the parties can do on it. They cannot force the media to carry a statement if in their media conferences the print and broadcast media decides the story has no interest to the electorate and that they would prefer to focus on Bert's finances and McDowell's bellowing.
You might as well leave the Greens out of that statement. They will now somehow manipulate their position to reflect FFs and the PDs.
It wouldn't surprise me if they quoted it is environmentally friendly or some such nonsense. :roll:
 

Insider2007

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Leftfemme22 said:
Insider2007 said:
cyberianpan said:
Overall the people who I'd give most blame to are Fine Gael & Labour: PPARS oughta been a big election issue
PPARS was raised in the election by FG, Labour and the Greens. The media ignored all the press releases issued on them. If the media decides that an issue is not important enough to carry, even when the opposition says it is, there is damn all the parties can do on it. They cannot force the media to carry a statement if in their media conferences the print and broadcast media decides the story has no interest to the electorate and that they would prefer to focus on Bert's finances and McDowell's bellowing.
You might as well leave the Greens out of that statement. They will now somehow manipulate their position to reflect FFs and the PDs.
It wouldn't surprise me if they quoted it is environmentally friendly or some such nonsense. :roll:
In those days they pretended they wanted FF out of power no matter what!!! :?
 


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