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HSE 'rotten culture of secrecy' Ombudsman


Newsy

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Emily O’Reilly accused health chiefs of wasting public resources, operating in "a parallel universe" and frustrating her attempt to access vital family law records.

"I think there’s a huge issue around the excessive secrecy and legalism of the HSE. It strikes me that it is a cultural thing within the HSE," she said.
Read more: Ombudsman attacks HSE?s ?rotten culture of secrecy? | Irish Examiner

I haven't seen a thread on this. If there is one, please forgive me.

Have the chiefs of the HSE no shame. With such 'secrecy' within the HSE, it appears they are looking out for themselves, RATHER than the welfare of their clientele!!!!
 
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jackryan

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She has a point!! I work in the health service and one of the sacroscant issues is confidentiality! so i would suggest a change in legislation, once a patient/family waieve the right to confidentiality medical records etc. are then open to the public!

And HSE can talk on individual cases nothing makes my blood boil when I hear that they can't because It can often be a onesided case! Now I am not making any excuses for the health service mistakes are made! and by the way who is policing the ombudsman office?? are people/institutions getting a fair treatment??
 

spidermom

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Two things here...

1. I read the report in full..http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/Reports/AnnualReports/AnnualReportoftheOmbudsman2009/media/Ombudsman AR ENG.pdf...she outlines some of the cases relevant to the HSE, but nowhere in the report is it mentioned about being restricted by excessive legalism from the HSE, which surprised me...!


HOWEVER....

2.In defense of the HSE Prof Drumm goes on and on about the in camera rule being the issue. Most of the cases quoted were not child welfare cases, so his defense does not stack up!
 

jackryan

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Two things here...

1. I read the report in full..http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/Reports/AnnualReports/AnnualReportoftheOmbudsman2009/media/Ombudsman AR ENG.pdf...she outlines some of the cases relevant to the HSE, but nowhere in the report is it mentioned about being restricted by excessive legalism from the HSE, which surprised me...!


HOWEVER....

2.In defense of the HSE Prof Drumm goes on and on about the in camera rule being the issue. Most of the cases quoted were not child welfare cases, so his defense does not stack up!
I know that we are not allowed to divulge any issues in regard to individual cases! Bloody annoying sometimes! I personally think that once cases go public the medical record goes public! the HSE people can deal with the particular cases!
 

spidermom

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I know that we are not allowed to divulge any issues in regard to individual cases! Bloody annoying sometimes! I personally think that once cases go public the medical record goes public! the HSE people can deal with the particular cases!
Aye..its a funny one though Jack...cos technically the records belong to the patient....but sure you know the hoops patients have to go through to get them!...so its the "when they become public" bit...that holds up everything!

The incredibly stupid bit of it is...that all research shows that the majority of patients that litigate do so because..
1.They want a proper and timely apology.
2.They want to find out what went wrong.
3. They want to be sure that whatever went wrong does not happen again. and they want to be sure that lessons are learnt.


Its not hard..its not rocket science most of the time...but its not encouraged or fostered.
The Madden report on patient safety is the best report on fostering a system of patient advocacy and safety and has largely been ignored...by the Minister,the DOHC, the HSE...and as a result the hospitals, GPs and every other health provider in the state...and that quite frankly is a disgrace!
 
B

boo-boo

I am sure that the HSE isnt the only organisation who creates bureaucratic nightmares tangling persons up in nots trying to get information from them.

The Department of Social Protection is another organisation that will definately refuse to give you information or answers to complex questions and especially so when they know you are searching for answers that will definately hang them! They come up with the most stupid of reasons while attempting to justify maladministration! It does beg the question though do they think that we are all just willing to just accept whatever crap that they decide to speel?

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!
 

Newsy

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The Madden report on patient safety is the best report on fostering a system of patient advocacy and safety and has largely been ignored...by the Minister,the DOHC, the HSE...and as a result the hospitals, GPs and every other health provider in the state...and that quite frankly is a disgrace!
Why, do you think spidermom, has this report been ignored???
 

jackryan

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Aye..its a funny one though Jack...cos technically the records belong to the patient....but sure you know the hoops patients have to go through to get them!...so its the "when they become public" bit...that holds up everything!

The incredibly stupid bit of it is...that all research shows that the majority of patients that litigate do so because..



Its not hard..its not rocket science most of the time...but its not encouraged or fostered.
The Madden report on patient safety is the best report on fostering a system of patient advocacy and safety and has largely been ignored...by the Minister,the DOHC, the HSE...and as a result the hospitals, GPs and every other health provider in the state...and that quite frankly is a disgrace!

1.They want a proper and timely apology.
2.They want to find out what went wrong.
3. They want to be sure that whatever went wrong does not happen again. and they want to be sure that lessons are learnt.

I have serious reservations about this! especially once lawyers getting involved!!

Records do contain info, but there is info can often be important but to put it in writing can be dangerous!!

difficult to explain but a reality!
 

spidermom

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The lawyers get involved cos they can get no answers.
There are those who wish to litigate, particularly in obstetrics, but research does show that in the majority of cases its because they cannot get answers any other way!
 

jackryan

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The lawyers get involved cos they can get no answers.
There are those who wish to litigate, particularly in obstetrics, but research does show that in the majority of cases its because they cannot get answers any other way!

There are other issues too! first off medical records are quite complicated they can be records that can have 10's of people recording stuff in them! Ok I will give a very simple example: U are a nurse on duty Mr. X is dying u have observed the family and u see that there is tension, u are off duty at 8am do u write in the notes ure observaton?
sorry to clarify that the family are not getting on!!
 

spidermom

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There are other issues too! first off medical records are quite complicated they can be records that can have 10's of people recording stuff in them! Ok I will give a very simple example: U are a nurse on duty Mr. X is dying u have observed the family and u see that there is tension, u are off duty at 8am do u write in the notes ure observaton?
sorry to clarify that the family are not getting on!!


ARA..that ones easy!!...give me a hard one!!

Family tension in an illness or condition that has been properly managed does not anywhere, except tearing families apart!!

It can be very difficult when families do not agree on treatment or e.g resus status...but those do not go to court either!!
 

JCR

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The HSE and SIPTU are both rotten to the very core is the completely untrue rumour which I have heard. All the talk here of lawyers must be a coincidence because an awful lot of people in the HSE obviously didn't know and couldn't know what was going on regarding the latest FAS type scandal about misapropriation of HSE funds on a disgusting scale. It only has the same mixture of rumour and heresay as Berties alledged shennanigans before it which of course had no proof and we all accept that Bertie did nothing illegal or wrong whatsover. I must add that Bertie and the HSE and SIPTU are fine upstanding examples of democracy and I would never accuse any of them of any wrongdoing at all because I would be totally wrong and I personally would never accuse anyone in government, the HSE or SIPTU of theft and corruption, that doesn't happen in this country, what I have heard from within rank and file HSE workers must be lies obviously and I can't even remember thier names anyway and furthermore I would say that any journalist following this story up would not make the front page. The idea that a lot of people in the HSE know what was going on regarding HSE funds and SIPTU is just heresay/rumour not worth pursuing by any journalist and I condemn any insuations implying any wronging by the HSE and anyone in SIPTU as completely untrue.
 

cry freedom

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More power to Emily O'Reilly's elbow!
She really is the Nuala O'Loan of Irish public life.
I fear however that if she continues on like this and upsets too many apple carts she will be shafted and we, the supine Irish public, will just sit on our hands and let it happen.
Well done Emily.
Brains, courage, integrity and beauty too.
Can you really be Irish?
I really do have the hots for you
 

spidermom

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