Humans Will Never Colonise Mars

Lumpy Talbot

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Technologically speaking it makes sense only one way to prepare for colonies on Mars and that would be as an 'Ark' should we be hit by an interstellar mountain approaching at speeds which make a mockery of Einstein and his relatives- a very outside chance but still possible.

Then again we could do that by flash-freezing eggs and sperm and sending them off to space in all directions to drift forever until someone somewhere puts up a mitt and catches it. Leave a set of instructions for making your very own human from the far end of the milky way in the churn and that's that taken care of.

You would want to be careful about sending an AI as well. All we need is a rogue AI which has developed a contempt for humans and has a few 3-D printers attached to its ass.

We'd be dealing with the first Interstellar Nuke in fairly short order. Better remember to keep the AI on a current flow which isn't battery fed. Soon as CASIO the Magnificent starts acting uppity the nearest urchin could pull out the plug from the socket in the wall.
 


StarryPlough01

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Technologically speaking it makes sense only one way to prepare for colonies on Mars and that would be as an 'Ark' should we be hit by an interstellar mountain approaching at speeds which make a mockery of Einstein and his relatives- a very outside chance but still possible.

Then again we could do that by flash-freezing eggs and sperm and sending them off to space in all directions to drift forever until someone somewhere puts up a mitt and catches it. Leave a set of instructions for making your very own human from the far end of the milky way in the churn and that's that taken care of.

You would want to be careful about sending an AI as well. All we need is a rogue AI which has developed a contempt for humans and has a few 3-D printers attached to its ass.

We'd be dealing with the first Interstellar Nuke in fairly short order. Better remember to keep the AI on a current flow which isn't battery fed. Soon as CASIO the Magnificent starts acting uppity the nearest urchin could pull out the plug from the socket in the wall.

Major asteroid collisions happen much more frequently than people realise.

Those eggs are considered a delicacy in Andromeda. Please send more.

Sorry the manufacturer has discontinued plugs and off buttons.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Experiments with humans confined together over long periods of time reveal disturbing effects on psychology. That alone should be a major consideration whether colonisation is at all possible in the next 500-1,000 years.

Small colonies would be likely to fall apart without constant contact with earth. They'd have to be a certain size to succeed and the size required mitigates such a colony being possible with current technology. So there's a sort of paradox involved apart from the technological and resource issue.

Currently it doesn't make any sense to try a colony on Mars or the Moon unless it is an experiment calculated to learn more about the possible issues and challenges.

Our technology is suited for automated probes and digital only expeditions. Economically it makes no sense at all to have astronauts on board a shuttle or exploratory suite of instruments.

It is just unnecessary risk and the only advantage is PR for NASA, ESA and private sector budgets.
 

Ardillaun

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Let's leave it to the robots to get everything sorted first. There are many questions to answer about the journey, let alone the destination. At the moment, our gravity-loving bodies would be in a sad state long before they got there.
 

StarryPlough01

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Experiments with humans confined together over long periods of time reveal disturbing effects on psychology. That alone should be a major consideration whether colonisation is at all possible in the next 500-1,000 years.

Small colonies would be likely to fall apart without constant contact with earth. They'd have to be a certain size to succeed and the size required mitigates such a colony being possible with current technology. So there's a sort of paradox involved apart from the technological and resource issue.

Currently it doesn't make any sense to try a colony on Mars or the Moon unless it is an experiment calculated to learn more about the possible issues and challenges.

Our technology is suited for automated probes and digital only expeditions. Economically it makes no sense at all to have astronauts on board a shuttle or exploratory suite of instruments.

It is just unnecessary risk and the only advantage is PR for NASA, ESA and private sector budgets.

I'm glad you will not be with me on Mars. Bon Voyage as you pilot your armchair.
 

StarryPlough01

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I'm glad you will not be with me on Mars. Bon Voyage as you pilot your armchair.

Think for yourself regarding gravity-loving bodies. Mine could do well in lesser gravity.
 
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owedtojoy

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I don’t get why you‘d be in favour of manned bases on the Moon but against them on Mars. Sure the distance and time is a big factor against it but it’s a more benign environment for human presence.

Anyway, from that article, its interesting to hear a senior european opinion on the subject and he sees it as a stepping stone for Mars.
Yes, I agree with the stepping stone idea, that is where I am at also.

But shifting the focus from the Moon to Mars ups the challenges exponentially. The Moon orbits Earth, it took the Apollo spacecraft a few days to get there. From a Space Station, it would be even less.

Think of the human bases in Antarctica - without regular supplies by aircraft, they would be untenable for humans. Bases on the Moon and Mars will need regular resupply, even if we have a Matt Damon type growing his own potatoes.

Mars orbits the Sun, and it is weeks away, maybe even months when it is on the far side of the Sun. Resupply will be a massive challenge for any Mars Base, and add enormously to the costs, and to the safety systems required.

Resupply could be done by drones, but not having humans at the receiving end reduces the schedule and the payloads by a significant factor. Keeping the human crews to a minimum (or eliminating them altogether) frees up the potential to expand the scientific content of robotic missions. We do not have the technology now, but we do not have the developed technology to put humans there either (beyond the concepts).

We are at a crossroads as to what form our further exploration of the Solar System will take.

The risk of an Apollo-type program to Mars is that the same thing will happen - after the spectacular success of putting humans on the planet, exhaustion will set in. Another generation, faced with massive challenges here on Earth, may just can the whole thing.

Better, imho, to make it mainly a robot gig from the getgo, keeping the human content to a minimum. It would also eliminate the possibility of a Martian Apollo-13 type incident that would put the whole programme in jeopardy.

The further advantage of developing robotic technology to exlore Mars is that the robots would be programmable to explore interesting places like Titan or Pluto. Whereas, any human technology developed for Mars would be less transferable.
 

StarryPlough01

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Yes, I agree with the stepping stone idea, that is where I am at also.

But shifting the focus from the Moon to Mars ups the challenges exponentially. The Moon orbits Earth, it took the Apollo spacecraft a few days to get there. From a Space Station, it would be even less.

Think of the human bases in Antarctica - without regular supplies by aircraft, they would be untenable for humans. Bases on the Moon and Mars will need regular resupply, even if we have a Matt Damon type growing his own potatoes.

Mars orbits the Sun, and it is weeks away, maybe even months when it is on the far side of the Sun. Resupply will be a massive challenge for any Mars Base, and add enormously to the costs, and to the safety systems required.

Resupply could be done by drones, but not having humans at the receiving end reduces the schedule and the payloads by a significant factor. Keeping the human crews to a minimum (or eliminating them altogether) frees up the potential to expand the scientific content of robotic missions. We do not have the technology now, but we do not have the developed technology to put humans there either (beyond the concepts).

We are at a crossroads as to what form our further exploration of the Solar System will take.

The risk of an Apollo-type program to Mars is that the same thing will happen - after the spectacular success of putting humans on the planet, exhaustion will set in. Another generation, faced with massive challenges here on Earth, may just can the whole thing.

Better, imho, to make it mainly a robot gig from the getgo, keeping the human content to a minimum. It would also eliminate the possibility of a Martian Apollo-13 type incident that would put the whole programme in jeopardy.

The further advantage of developing robotic technology to exlore Mars is that the robots would be programmable to explore interesting places like Titan or Pluto. Whereas, any human technology developed for Mars would be less transferable.

"The risk of an Apollo-type program to Mars is that the same thing will happen - after the spectacular success of putting humans on the planet, exhaustion will set in. Another generation, faced with massive challenges here on Earth, may just can the whole thing." - Owed2Joy
If people like you are in charge, it certainly will.

If you love robots so much, I suggest you marry one. Obviously, a robot is all it takes to satisfy you. Perhaps your drones can discover a new species of bacteria.
 
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StarryPlough01

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Stunning video of Mars landscape in 4K resolution



New: Mars In 4K






2,880,805 views
•Jul 17, 2020


'Mars as you've never seen it before: Incredible images captured from the Martian surface by NASA rovers are remastered in stunning ultra high definition by space fans'

  • YouTubers ElderFox Documentaries created panoramas from Martian images
  • The pictures were all taken by Curiosity, Opportunity and Spirit rovers on Mars
  • The team 'upscaled' the images into ultra high definition and panned over them
By Ryan Morrison For Mailonline
Published: 04:21 AEST, 23 July 2020 | Updated: 05:29 AEST, 23 July 2020

VIDEO
Incredible images captured from Mars 'remastered' in ultra HD
 

Ardillaun

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We are at a crossroads as to what form our further exploration of the Solar System will take.

The risk of an Apollo-type program to Mars is that the same thing will happen - after the spectacular success of putting humans on the planet, exhaustion will set in. Another generation, faced with massive challenges here on Earth, may just can the whole thing.
I suspect future generations will be less obsessed about putting actual human feet on Mars. We weren't designed for that job. Our tools can do it better.
 

StarryPlough01

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The main reason to go to Mars is to have a back-up for humanity to deal with existential threat. Robots are not a back-up for humanity.

_____

'Effects of the Famine 2: Emigration'
Effects of the Famine: Emigration

With many of the emigrants suffering from fever, coupled with the cramped and insanitary conditions on board what became known as the "coffin ships", disease was rampant. It is estimated that perhaps as many as 40% of steerage passengers died either en-route or immediately after arrival. Although they were regulated, many of the ships were privately owned, and some captains grossly overcrowded them in order to get more fares. Only the slave ships of the previous century would have had worse conditions. One witness commented on a voyage "This vessel left with 476 passengers, of whom 158 died before arrival, including the Master, mate and nine of the crew... Three days after her arrival there remained of the ship's company only the second mate, one seaman and a boy, able to do duty; all others were dead or ill in hospital [4]".
 

StarryPlough01

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I forecast that I'll be the Master Bobsledder in the solar system!
 
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owedtojoy

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This is really exciting.

And the robotic content is pretty high. A drone aircraft is included.

It will explore and area of Mars where they was once water flowing into a lake. If there was water, then there may also have been life. It is probably the most complex space mission ever.

How sad to discover that there once had been life on Mars, but it has become extinct, or never developed beyond the microbial stage.

It might help us realise that all life is ultimately finite, and maybe we should take better care of our own planet, and ourselves. It would be wonderful to aim for maintaining it in prime condition for human habitation.


 

owedtojoy

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No, robots are much slower than humans.
Speed may not be the prime characteristic.

For example, if we wanted to mine gold on Mars, it would be ultimately cheaper, safer and environmentally more benign to send gold-mining robots there than a squad of humans.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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We have the technology now to fire off samples of human sperm and eggs frozen in capsules in all directions. Handy little booklet with it 'How to Grow Your Humans'. Kushti.

After all time is fairly irrelevant over the distances said capsules would have to cover to even get into a neighbourhood we don't know very well so at some point we'll probably have to do that. Could fire a few through a black hole, sit back, get a cup of tea and see what happens over the next hundred thousand years or so.

First budgeted item. (1) A shedload of Hob-Nobs.
 

redhead

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We have the technology now to fire off samples of human sperm and eggs frozen in capsules in all directions. Handy little booklet with it 'How to Grow Your Humans'. Kushti.

After all time is fairly irrelevant over the distances said capsules would have to cover to even get into a neighbourhood we don't know very well so at some point we'll probably have to do that. Could fire a few through a black hole, sit back, get a cup of tea and see what happens over the next hundred thousand years or so.

First budgeted item. (1) A shedload of Hob-Nobs.
Probably not ideal for growing embryos in space.

Besides, nominative determinism would surely dictate the use of this:

0002988_mars-protein-powder-875g_550.jpg

Helps you work, rest & play, apparently.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Deiscirt

Lumpy Talbot

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Could be that there will be little option. If we have reached or passed a tipping point there will obviously be a lot of money thrown at escape routes for those who can afford it.

At the moment the technology doesn't exist for travel at below light speeds (thanks a lot, Mr Einstein) so options in terms of practicality are limited to near earth colonies.

An attempt to reach another star system is impractical, we just don't have the ability for manned missions that far and won't do I suspect for some time yet. So, yes, if the 1% think they can survive in a colony somewhere some will probably attempt it as a private colony on the moon or on Mars it probably will be attempted at some point.

But it would be much more dangerous a proposition than the early colonies in the Americas, for example. And some of those just disappeared from history.
 


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