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Hungary, immigration and birth-rate

owedtojoy

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
46,767
Orban is one of the few European leaders who can actually pursue policies like this, because Hungary is still, well Hungarian.

No way you could do that in France or UK.
He does not mind Chinese investment from a global brand (Huawei), or enriching himself and his family from EU funds.

Chinese Investment in Hungary: Few results but great expectations - ChinfluenCE

Exclusive: Hungary premier's friends and family win more and more public business | Reuters

The EU are changing its budget rules, so Orban will find his income stream a bit limited this year. No wonder he is p!ssed.
 


owedtojoy

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Feb 27, 2010
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Orban's ideas are a lot of crackpot eugenics.

He is saying that in 20 years time (minimum) there may be enough of a population to sustain a modern economy? In the long run, he and his followers will be dead, when the dubious benefits of this come to pass.

Meanwhile, the removal of women from the workforce to raise babies, cook and look after their big men will put more pressure on the workers currently employed. What is he going to do, force more and more overtime?

Who is going to invest in a country with no workers? Hungary has poor healthcare and education, and emigration will continue.

Either this is a popularity stunt, or a crackpot idea. The way forward would be persuade Hungary's emigrants to return, as well as allowing immigrants to enter, but who would want to go back to Orban's personal political slum?
 

Lagertha

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Mar 23, 2017
Messages
4,460
Orban's ideas are a lot of crackpot eugenics.

He is saying that in 20 years time (minimum) there may be enough of a population to sustain a modern economy? In the long run, he and his followers will be dead, when the dubious benefits of this come to pass.

Meanwhile, the removal of women from the workforce to raise babies, cook and look after their big men will put more pressure on the workers currently employed. What is he going to do, force more and more overtime?

Who is going to invest in a country with no workers? Hungary has poor healthcare and education, and emigration will continue.

Either this is a popularity stunt, or a crackpot idea. The way forward would be persuade Hungary's emigrants to return, as well as allowing immigrants to enter, but who would want to go back to Orban's personal political slum?
You're talking out of your arse as usual. What it does is give women who want to have children the financial security and practical support to do so. Not every European government wants their country to be a Muslim Sh1thole full of lazy workshy rapey bastards.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Dec 4, 2008
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Deiscirt
I posted on this great unsayable some years back. I've never heard any politician refer to (Can you name any Irish, German or British politician who's made any statement?) never mind enact policy on what is arguably the greatest long term threat Europeans face.

Even mentioning this problem is considered grubby or suspect by some. This appears to marry with the idea Europe is nothing other than real estate and should Italy eventually be mostly peopled by Bangladeshis (to take an example) only a racist could possibly object.
 

Degeneration X

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Jun 14, 2017
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It is often claimed ( the logic is rarely closely argued) that countries with low birth-rates, should receive more immigrants to correct their demographic change.

In Hungary Victor Orban is not accepting that route as Hungary's future.
Hungary tries for baby boom with tax breaks and loan forgiveness - BBC News

Hungary's current fertility rate is 1.45 children per woman. An increased fertility rate, Orban said, was a way of defending Hungary's future without depending on immigration.

During Mr Orban's State of the Nation speech announcing his proposals there was a small counter protest of approx. 2000 people.

The measures will include: loans to buy houses for mothers, mortgage debt forgiveness when one has three children, lifelong exemption from income tax when a woman has four children, also assistance with nursery places and buying larger vehicles.


Comment: Fair play to Hungary for not accepting the received orthodoxy, 'There's nothing your society can do; you have to be the passive recipient of demographic changes imposed on you by others'. Victor's analysis of the issues ( financial) underlying the demographic decrease seems plausible. It now takes two hard-working successful middle-managers to buy the house that a bank-clerk and a housewife could buy 80 years ago; there's just not time off the slippery career ladder, or in the long-hours work culture to raise children. The decision to have more children is at present, for many women, a choice for dependency upon her husband/partner ( very contrary to the current ethos of feminism) , or a choice for dependency upon the state ( even less reliable, welfare benefits subject to policy change, rarely generous and bearing a stigma).

You might note, bringing in immigrants to replace a supposed 'missing generation' mocks the choice of those well-meaning women who declined to have children to 'save the planet' ( I have little idea how common those sentiments are).
'I’m not having children because I want to save the planet' - BBC News

I'm not convinced a decreasing birthrate in Europe is a problem at all. Romania's population has been decreasing since 1990- and the EU seems pretty sanguine about 'the problem'- no Brussels agency has asked me to move there; though I could be persuaded and have proven 'stud' characteristics.
Romania Population (2019) - Worldometers
Mussolini tried something similar in Italy back in the day - I don't think it had the results he was hoping for.
 

wiseowl

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
59
orban is the best nation state leader in Europe. his country don't want the multicultural hell that he beckoning in Ireland.
his policies on child birth will take time for yields.

the one problem in hungary, as has been the case in Romania, is that the gypsies are the one group increasing in numbers and frankly they are the ones you less of.
in southern Romania, where ten years ago, those describing themselves as gypsy/gypsy heritage accounted for 15% of the population. In the latest census, the percentage has increased from 15% to 44%.

Europe is being flooded with heavily breeding Asian muslims, gypsies and Africans...time to build a wall and preserve the white Christians....Poland may be the saviour.
 

Polybius

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Apr 8, 2015
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4,413
Well done Hungry. The solution to declining birth rates in Europe is not to import third world migrants but rather to increase European birth rates.

Birth rates for white Irish people are falling off the cliff and something must be done. The left don't care if the Irish race disappear because they are self loathing idiots who think white people are responsible for everything bad in the world. The greedy FF/FG establishment don't care about anything other than enriching themselves by pandering to global finance. Only patriotic conservatives can preserve the Irish people but we must act soon. 20 more years of these demographics and we are finished as a people.
 

flavirostris

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Dec 21, 2007
Messages
24,569
If it works for Israel then why couldn't it work for Hungary?
Maybe the same reason walls work in Israel but are a bad idea for the US..
 

AyaanMyHero

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Sep 25, 2017
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If it works for Israel then why couldn't it work for Hungary?
Ffs: amazed to see Israel has 3.11 births per woman.

Whatever they are doing, they are seriously bucking the trend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Polybius

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
4,413
Orban's ideas are a lot of crackpot eugenics.

He is saying that in 20 years time (minimum) there may be enough of a population to sustain a modern economy? In the long run, he and his followers will be dead, when the dubious benefits of this come to pass.

Meanwhile, the removal of women from the workforce to raise babies, cook and look after their big men will put more pressure on the workers currently employed. What is he going to do, force more and more overtime?

Who is going to invest in a country with no workers? Hungary has poor healthcare and education, and emigration will continue.

Either this is a popularity stunt, or a crackpot idea. The way forward would be persuade Hungary's emigrants to return, as well as allowing immigrants to enter, but who would want to go back to Orban's personal political slum?
What's your solution? Import tens of millions of muslims and Africans into Europe just so the rich can have a sub-class of cheap labour? What's the point of Europe if it's not European? So what if big business moan about rising wages. There's more important things than money. The Hungarians understand this. The Japanese understand this. The Koreans understand this. Why can't you?
 

flavirostris

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Dec 21, 2007
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Ffs: amazed to see Israel has 3.11 births per woman.

Whatever they are doing, they are seriously bucking the trend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's the Ultra Orthodox Haredi. They have like 10 kids minimum. The secular Jews not so much.
 

Polybius

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Apr 8, 2015
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4,413
Ffs: amazed to see Israel has 3.11 births per woman.

Whatever they are doing, they are seriously bucking the trend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Jews have recovered to their pre-holocaust population. Meanwhile there are less Irish people today than there were 200 years ago. It's appalling what has happened to our people. But who cares? Certainly not Leo and co.
 

recedite

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Nov 20, 2010
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1,411
I would have said his attitude to migrants was very much at odds with this newly-minted paternalistic love of family guff. It's actually a better way to go about things.
Its all part of the one policy.
Most developed and civilised countries (European, American, east Asian/Japan etc. and Australia etc.) are reproducing at less than the replacement rate. The banksters tell us that this negative growth will lead to a pensions time bomb and economic collapse.

Most shithole countries are reproducing their population at astronomical rates, leading to war and famine.
Idiots like Coveney have put 2 and 2 together, and got 22.

Orban has put 2 and 2 together, and got 4.

It seems you just swallowed the narrative that Hungary is a rogue state, and were surprised that these new policies smelled of good things, like mom and apple pie.
Well, now you understand the maths behind them.
 

parentheses

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Aug 26, 2011
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It's the Ultra Orthodox Haredi. They have like 10 kids minimum. The secular Jews not so much.
Apparently the less religious Israelis are now having more babies also. There is no longer a gap between Jewish birthrates and Muslim birthrates
 

AyaanMyHero

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Sep 25, 2017
Messages
797
It's the Ultra Orthodox Haredi. They have like 10 kids minimum. The secular Jews not so much.
Not so simple. If you have the patience scan this. Even secular Jews have a fertility rate above replacement.

Israel Mosaic

This is the most detailed article but I scanned many and they all paint the same picture.

Interestingly, none of them place much importance in the financial incentives.

Religious influence and fear of being outnumbered by arabs is my summary. Both of these combined to make having children a duty and this has overcome the detracting effects of increased education level and career pressure.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Degeneration X

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Jun 14, 2017
Messages
7,111
Well done Hungry. The solution to declining birth rates in Europe is not to import third world migrants but rather to increase European birth rates.

Birth rates for white Irish people are falling off the cliff and something must be done. The left don't care if the Irish race disappear because they are self loathing idiots who think white people are responsible for everything bad in the world. The greedy FF/FG establishment don't care about anything other than enriching themselves by pandering to global finance. Only patriotic conservatives can preserve the Irish people but we must act soon. 20 more years of these demographics and we are finished as a people.
Do we need to do this? Given how automation will make so people's jobs redundant in the not too distant future is there a need for replacement population via either immigration or incentives to increase the indigenous birth-rate?
 


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