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Hungary's draconian new laws


Shqiptar

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The government of Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban is being assailed from all sides in the international arena for a raft of new laws that critics say infringe on basic human rights. The articles below contain details of more of these (many of which are indeed objectionable) but there are two in particular that caught my eye.

1. Sleeping in the streets will henceforth be a crime.
Is this such a bad thing? Obviously, if there are no hostel beds available, then the law is stupid. But there are people sleeping rough in major Irish cities because they don't want to go into a hostel. It's dangerous and unhealthy for them and unsightly in an urban environment, not to mention giving a menacing air to an area.

2. University students receiving grants are required to work in Hungary after graduating.
This would be for a certain period of time. I think this should be seen as an opportunity to pay back one's country for the benefit of the education. There's no point in educating tens of thousands of students only for them to go and benefit some other economy. Such jobs might need to be in the public sector and the wages might be pretty low (perhaps not much above dole) but there's no such thing as a free lunch any more.

Sources:
1. UN rights office joins condemnation of Hungary reforms - European News | Latest News from Across Europe | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 16, 2013
2. Critics slam Hungary for 'anti-democratic' new laws - Public Service Europe
3. BBC News - Q&A: Hungary's controversial constitutional changes
 
D

Dylan2010

2. University students receiving grants are required to work in Hungary after graduating.
This would be for a certain period of time. I think this should be seen as an opportunity to pay back one's country for the benefit of the education. There's no point in educating tens of thousands of students only for them to go and benefit some other economy. Such jobs might need to be in the public sector and the wages might be pretty low (perhaps not much above dole) but there's no such thing as a free lunch any more.
its a silly attempt to make the welfare state work. Fair enough if a company pays for your education as part of a apprenticeship and you agree to work for them afterwards, everyone knows what they are letting themselves in for. Does this mean however that an Engineer would have to take a job in McDonalds or some dumb makey uppy job like filling potholes?
 

Shqiptar

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its a silly attempt to make the welfare state work. Fair enough if a company pays for your education as part of a apprenticeship and you agree to work for them afterwards, everyone knows what they are letting themselves in for. Does this mean however that an Engineer would have to take a job in McDonalds or some dumb makey uppy job like filling potholes?
Well, one would hope not. It should be a job that's relevant to their discipline. Otherwise, their future career prospects would be damaged.
 

Telemachus

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The UN should shut its stupid face.
 
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Dylan2010

Well, one would hope not. It should be a job that's relevant to their discipline. Otherwise, their future career prospects would be damaged.
but thats the thing, jobs dont just open up because a politician says they should. Some wonk will be responsible for making this appear to work and suddenly Litter Warden will be re badged as sanitary engineering internship. Hungarian graduates working abroad will be picking up language skills and a lot will want to return various reasons. If the Hungarian Education system has as many dumb courses as the Irish one, they should cut back if they cant afford it.
 

LamportsEdge

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Landlocked Hungary is becoming a small island:)
 

Nemesiscorporation

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The government of Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban is being assailed from all sides in the international arena for a raft of new laws that critics say infringe on basic human rights. The articles below contain details of more of these (many of which are indeed objectionable) but there are two in particular that caught my eye.

1. Sleeping in the streets will henceforth be a crime.
Is this such a bad thing? Obviously, if there are no hostel beds available, then the law is stupid. But there are people sleeping rough in major Irish cities because they don't want to go into a hostel. It's dangerous and unhealthy for them and unsightly in an urban environment, not to mention giving a menacing air to an area.

2. University students receiving grants are required to work in Hungary after graduating.
This would be for a certain period of time. I think this should be seen as an opportunity to pay back one's country for the benefit of the education. There's no point in educating tens of thousands of students only for them to go and benefit some other economy. Such jobs might need to be in the public sector and the wages might be pretty low (perhaps not much above dole) but there's no such thing as a free lunch any more.

Sources:
1. UN rights office joins condemnation of Hungary reforms - European News | Latest News from Across Europe | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 16, 2013
2. Critics slam Hungary for 'anti-democratic' new laws - Public Service Europe
3. BBC News - Q&A: Hungary's controversial constitutional changes
Leaving aside the fact that Hungary seems determined to move back to 1942, forcing medical students in Ireland to work for ten years after graduation so as to cover the costs of training them, might not be a bad idea.
 

Shqiptar

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but thats the thing, jobs dont just open up because a politician says they should. Some wonk will be responsible for making this appear to work and suddenly Litter Warden will be re badged as sanitary engineering internship. Hungarian graduates working abroad will be picking up language skills and a lot will want to return various reasons. If the Hungarian Education system has as many dumb courses as the Irish one, they should cut back if they cant afford it.
I don't know how it would work in the Irish context for those who didn't get jobs in the private sector. It would require a change in mindset by public sector workers whereby the drawbridge isn't pulled up to keep out new young recruits.
 

Partizan

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Leaving aside the fact that Hungary seems determined to move back to 1942, forcing medical students in Ireland to work for ten years after graduation so as to cover the costs of training them, might not be a bad idea.
Many countries already have this stipulation, Russia being one. International students (Irish included) studying in Russia are required to live and work there for a period of time, usually 3-5 years after graduation.
 
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Dylan2010

Leaving aside the fact that Hungary seems determined to move back to 1942, forcing medical students in Ireland to work for ten years after graduation so as to cover the costs of training them, might not be a bad idea.
always wanting to paper over a crack. Why not close some of the dumber colleges around Ireland and open more places in degrees that are important.
 

Dame_Enda

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2. seems to violate the Single Market in the area of labour. If someone has an home or access to a dwelling then I see no problem with taking them off the streets. But as a criminal offence? Too severe. It is a nuisance but a civil offence would make more sense. I think Fides is pandering to Jobbik supporters.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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always wanting to paper over a crack.
Nope.

I prefer to completely remove the damaged part and replace it brand new.

Why not close some of the dumber colleges around Ireland and open more places in degrees that are important.
I would agree with that.

Emphasis should be on physics, chemistry, biology, mathmatics, engineering and computer programming.

Gibberish such as religion needs to be dropped and left to people to decide for themselves what they want for personal beliefs.
 

Shqiptar

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Leaving aside the fact that Hungary seems determined to move back to 1942, forcing medical students in Ireland to work for ten years after graduation so as to cover the costs of training them, might not be a bad idea.
Other new laws include:
- election campaigning to be restricted to state media only
- preference given to heterosexual family relationships
- marriage and parent/child relationship to form the basis of the "traditional family"
- limit to power of Constitutional Court so that it can't strike out laws already inserted in the Constitution
- reduction in retirement age of judges which critics say is a smokescreen for removing some "awkward" figures from courts who don't do the government's bidding.

All of this is possible because the Orban administration has a two-thirds majority in parliament. Many European countries allow governments to introduce sweeping constitutional changes if they have a two-thirds majority. Thankfully, Ireland isn't one of them.
 

Windowshopper

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Leaving aside the fact that Hungary seems determined to move back to 1942, forcing medical students in Ireland to work for ten years after graduation so as to cover the costs of training them, might not be a bad idea.
How would you force them? I cannot see foreign countries actually wanting to throw doctors out of their country.
 

Dame_Enda

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I think in the light of some of these measures maybe the Charter of Fundamental Rights wasn't entirely a bad idea. The Treaties allow for a member state to lose their voting rights in exceptional circumstances where European values are being violated.
 

Shqiptar

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2. seems to violate the Single Market in the area of labour. If someone has an home or access to a dwelling then I see no problem with taking them off the streets. But as a criminal offence? Too severe. It is a nuisance but a civil offence would make more sense. I think Fides is pandering to Jobbik supporters.
Hungary has turned sharply to the far right over the last few years. I wonder is part of this due to the shenanigans engaged in by the previous leftist administration. Anyway, you don't want to be a member of the Roma minority there at the moment.

Regarding the student law, again, I don't know the exact detail. I assume people won't be interned....! Probably, if you don't comply, you'll have to pay back your grant money.
 

Dame_Enda

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Well it's still a flagrant violation of the Single Market. The right to work wherever in the EU you please is a core element of the Treaties. The Commission may have to take Hungary before the ECJ I suspect if the noises from Brussels are more than just posturing.
 

Papillon

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1. Sleeping in the streets will henceforth be a crime.
Is this such a bad thing? Obviously, if there are no hostel beds available, then the law is stupid. But there are people sleeping rough in major Irish cities because they don't want to go into a hostel. It's dangerous and unhealthy for them and unsightly in an urban environment, not to mention giving a menacing air to an area.
I could be wrong but I think there's a similar law in The Netherlands where begging is also illegal.
 

Telemachus

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Many countries already have this stipulation, Russia being one. International students (Irish included) studying in Russia are required to live and work there for a period of time, usually 3-5 years after graduation.
Yeah, they probably as nemesis hinted want to gassixmillionjews too.
 
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