Hysteria surrounding school patronage

Orbit v2

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A number of primary schools in the Malahide/Swords area seem to have gone completely Donald Trump in terms of hysterical scaremongering in respect to a possible change of patronage from the Catholic church. It's a bit shocking to hear about these letters sent from the schools to parents, replete with multiple exclamation marks and peddling a variety of falsehoods.


I heard a woman complain on the radio this morning - how could she explain to one of her children that their sibling would be making their communion this year, but they might not be able to make it in two years time, if this change occurred. Also, apparently, Christmas can no longer be celebrated, nor "the role of grandparents in children's lives," Well, that certainly deserves an exclamation mark or two!! I hate to admit that my own kids went to one of these schools, though that was quite some time ago, yet even then, it was obvious the vast majority of families were not weekly mass goers.

I really think if calmer heads prevailed here there could be a solution, eg some new kind of patronage body, which mostly reflects the majority ethos (eg celebrates Christmas etc, but is not associated with the Catholic church). It reflects badly on these schools, that they are reacting in this way.
 


petaljam

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A number of primary schools in the Malahide/Swords area seem to have gone completely Donald Trump in terms of hysterical scaremongering in respect to a possible change of patronage from the Catholic church. It's a bit shocking to hear about these letters sent from the schools to parents, replete with multiple exclamation marks and peddling a variety of falsehoods.


I heard a woman complain on the radio this morning - how could she explain to one of her children that their sibling would be making their communion this year, but they might not be able to make it in two years time, if this change occurred. Also, apparently, Christmas can no longer be celebrated, nor "the role of grandparents in children's lives," Well, that certainly deserves an exclamation mark or two!! I hate to admit that my own kids went to one of these schools, though that was quite some time ago, yet even then, it was obvious the vast majority of families were not weekly mass goers.

I really think if calmer heads prevailed here there could be a solution, eg some new kind of patronage body, which mostly reflects the majority ethos (eg celebrates Christmas etc, but is not associated with the Catholic church). It reflects badly on these schools, that they are reacting in this way.
My children go (went now, mostly, only one still in the system, but anyway) to state schools in France where no religious practice is allowed on school time. Kids go to parish-run first communion preparations, generally taught by mums. A bit like Protestant Sunday School exceot it's an after-school activity on weekdays.

The problem they have these days is finding enough volunteers to commit the time needed to teach the classes, but there are plenty of children registered. I suppose it's easier to organize when it's done on school (ie taxpayers' time)

But it's complete nonsense to say that communion, confirmation etc won't happen. They will if parents want them and as long as a few of them are prepared to commit the time to running the preparatory courses. Or priests and nuns could do them. They're such good teachers and carers after all, running all those schools for so many decades.
 

Orbit v2

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An interesting aspect to this may be, this is possibly the first time an important decision has been placed in the hands of parents rather than boards of management (there's to be a vote of parents in each school). And teachers/principals don't know how to deal with it.
 

petaljam

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An interesting aspect to this may be, this is possibly the first time an important decision has been placed in the hands of parents rather than boards of management (there's to be a vote of parents in each school). And teachers/principals don't know how to deal with it.
Not a good sign if they reach straight for the scaremongering "disaster" card alright. It's so easy to see through, and discredits anything else they may have to say.

My point about France is that even when religious observance is actually banned on school premises, it's not a big deal to do all that in parish halls and the like. And as you said, there wouldn't even need to be that separation in Irish schools, eg the classes could be run on school premises as an after-school activity*. Just not funded by taxpayers in the form of state-paid teachers during school hours.

* It was actually good, kept them busy for a couple of hours at a very low cost compared to many sports activities. Though in exchange parents have to commit to going to a number of masses to witness their progeny offering gifts and so on. (Two of mine went as far as first communion, because they had a friend going IIRC. The others weren't interested. But we aren't practising so there was no pressure on them to go. If I'd pushed them they'd have been happy enough to go.)
 
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realistic1

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A number of primary schools in the Malahide/Swords area seem to have gone completely Donald Trump in terms of hysterical scaremongering in respect to a possible change of patronage from the Catholic church. It's a bit shocking to hear about these letters sent from the schools to parents, replete with multiple exclamation marks and peddling a variety of falsehoods.


I heard a woman complain on the radio this morning - how could she explain to one of her children that their sibling would be making their communion this year, but they might not be able to make it in two years time, if this change occurred. Also, apparently, Christmas can no longer be celebrated, nor "the role of grandparents in children's lives," Well, that certainly deserves an exclamation mark or two!! I hate to admit that my own kids went to one of these schools, though that was quite some time ago, yet even then, it was obvious the vast majority of families were not weekly mass goers.

I really think if calmer heads prevailed here there could be a solution, eg some new kind of patronage body, which mostly reflects the majority ethos (eg celebrates Christmas etc, but is not associated with the Catholic church). It reflects badly on these schools, that they are reacting in this way.

The most hypocritical thing about all this is that prominent advocates of such a move, will ensure that their children will continue to attend schools with patronage from the Catholic church. This move will cause further class and racial divide in Ireland, simple as!
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The Freakheads are busy with the old leaflet printing presses claiming Christmas is going to be banned and what-have-you. It is just the Bible-munchers trying to create hysteria as usual.

I still think it would be worth rounding them up and interning them in a re-opened Letterfrack. With the Sisters of the Gnouty Gnarl set up to run them into the ground like their beeyatches for a farmer's shilling..
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The most hypocritical thing about all this is that prominent advocates of such a move, will ensure that their children will continue to attend schools with patronage from the Catholic church. This move will cause further class and racial divide in Ireland, simple as!
The catholic church shouldn't even be in the state at this stage. The only reason they are at all is because we have around 3% to 7% of the population are blatant f*cking morons.
 

realistic1

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The catholic church shouldn't even be in the state at this stage. The only reason they are at all is because we have around 3% to 7% of the population are blatant f*cking morons.
and yet the most prominent advocates for divestment will continue to send their kids to Catholic schools. How do you square that??
 
D

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No I think non denominational schools should not have the benefits associated with schools of Christian patronage.
So the celebration of Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks day, Lent, First Communion, Confirmation, etc should not be part of the curriculum - although of course they can learn about it but not partake
They simply cannot have their cake and eat it
 

Lord Talbot

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Looking forward to the day the Irish state takes secularism seriously, and stops outsourcing education to an institution with an abhorrent track record on child welfare.
 

Orbit v2

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and yet the most prominent advocates for divestment will continue to send their kids to Catholic schools. How do you square that??
What makes you think that? For what it's worth, I think they are hypocrites for the most part, but I can't see why anyone would advocate for divestment, but still send their kids to Catholic schools.
 

Orbit v2

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No I think non denominational schools should not have the benefits associated with schools of Christian patronage.
So the celebration of Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks day, Lent, First Communion, Confirmation, etc should not be part of the curriculum - although of course they can learn about it but not partake
They simply cannot have their cake and eat it
So, are you going to outlaw Christmas in these schools? How will you stop them from celebrating it exactly?
 

lostexpectation

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An interesting aspect to this may be, this is possibly the first time an important decision has been placed in the hands of parents rather than boards of management (there's to be a vote of parents in each school). And teachers/principals don't know how to deal with it.
its just a indicative vote isn't it?
 
D

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So, are you going to outlaw Christmas in these schools? How will you stop them from celebrating it exactly?
I didn't say it should be outlawed
They should learn about it but be told not to partake in it as its a festival enjoyed by strange people called Christians who believe in a God - and they should avoid it in case they get corrupted by it.
Not having to buy presents will make it much cheaper for the parents too.
 

Lord Talbot

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I didn't say it should be outlawed
They should learn about it but be told not to partake in it as its a festival enjoyed by strange people called Christians who believe in a God - and they should avoid it in case they get corrupted by it.
Not having to buy presents will make it much cheaper for the parents too.
Not really up to the mad catholics what non-denom schools do or don't do.

That's kinda the whole point.
 

petaljam

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I didn't say it should be outlawed
They should learn about it but be told not to partake in it as its a festival enjoyed by strange people called Christians who believe in a God - and they should avoid it in case they get corrupted by it.
Not having to buy presents will make it much cheaper for the parents too.
Wait. You know there are criteria about what being a Catholic requires, right? And attending a Catholic school is not one of them. You're either very ignorant of your own religion or you're making this up as you go along.

Not to mention that Christians who are not Catholic attend various kinds of schools, not all of them religious by any means - so what gives Catholics the right to hijack Christmas or Easter and try to ban certain people from celebrating them if they want to?
 

Northsideman

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Easy answer to this is all schools, let the parents decide. Hold a plebiscite in each school, that is local democracy in action.
 

wombat

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So, are you going to outlaw Christmas in these schools? How will you stop them from celebrating it exactly?
Usually, what happens in secular schools is that someone objects to celebrating religious festivals, so they are all banned.
 

dizillusioned

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Ban ALL religious festivals... simple. Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Islamic... Sure ban religion while yer at it... will stop a lot of crap worldwide.
 
D

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Wait. You know there are criteria about what being a Catholic requires, right? Attending a Catholic school is not one of them.

Not to mention that Christians who are not Catholic attend various kinds of schools, not all of them religious by any means - so what gives Catholics the right to hijack Christmas or Easter and try to ban certain people from celebrating them if they want to?
No I am saying schools that are non denominational should be non denominational
If you want your kid to grow up unattached to a Christian religion, then you wont want him/her to celebrating religious festivals such as Christmas, St Patricks day, Easter, etc. Thats why parents put their kids into such schools.
 


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