I wish to 'opt out' my young kids from Irish language learning.

Hunter-Gatherer

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Regarding the other discussion on here, about whether the Irish language is dead or alive, there arises another question. The question of giving consent and readily embracing the language or in opting out.

Many would accept that Christianity is alive and well across much of the globe, but this does not prevent the irish discussing whether they wish their kids to opt out from Religious education at schools. The 'Educate together' schools have made great strides in enabling a secular education is this 'Republic'. Now a cornerstone in any 'Republic' is freedom of speech, freedom of association and the democratic freedom to choose.

Peig, An tuiseal gineadeach ( however you spell it ) , The Spailpin Fanach etc etc are about as relevant to myself and my life as the Japanese Volleyball team. I wish my kids to get a twentyfirst century education. Strong on Maths, English, Sciences, Humanities, Modern Languages, etc etc. They will need this as the labour market is tough out there. As the country becomes more and more multicultural, the relevance of Irish is increasingly becoming something divisive. The insiders who have the language, versus everybody else. Well paid teachers, translators and RTE personnel all doing quite well at the taxpayers expense. It is all looking like a cosy Cartel.

Compulsory Leaving Cert Irish for entry into NUI universities is actually discriminating against those born in this Republic and in favour of everybody else. The points race is tough, and this rule is making it very tough for many of the 'New Irish' to get into places like UCD and UCC. You spend ( or i would say waste ) 14 years of your life learning a language that you will probably never need, nor use, nor even like.

You may choose to support Manchester United, i may choose to ignore the football. You may choose Mechanical Drawing at school, i may choose otherwise. No compunction, respect and treat us all as individuals.

Many Canadians do not learn French, and that is ok. Many Irish do not speak Irish, and that appears to be some kind of a sin that hangs about our neck like an albatross. Well, i do not wish to go to confession, and i do not wish to say the Rosary As Gaeilge. Thank you.

At a time when many of those in Ulster are fighting for the right to opt in, to choose irish. Can we in the republic also be given a choice on a law that is nearly 100 years old ?

So what about some fairness, even if you can argue that the language is alive and well ( Man Utd, Christianity, Mechanical Drawing, alcoholism, Obesity, tv talent competitions .... all very vibrant in this country ) , let us choose to opt out ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding


Edit : By all means we could put this to a referendum as discussed by many below. However lets give the entitlement to vote 'compulsory irish' only to those who can today demonstrate a good standard of written and spoken irish themselves. This could include politicians who open up their speeches with 'a chairde, blah blah'. Put them to an exam for fluency today - and not some exam you passed 20 or 30 years ago.
 
Last edited:


ruman

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Regarding the other discussion on here, about whether the Irish language is dead or alive, there arises another question. The question of giving consent and readily embracing the language or in opting out.

Many would accept that Christianity is alive and well across much of the globe, but this does not prevent the irish discussing whether they wish their kids to opt out from Religious education at schools. The 'Educate together' schools have made great strides in enabling a secular education is this 'Republic'. Now a cornerstone in any 'Republic' is freedom of speech, freedom of association and the democratic freedom to choose.

Peig, An tuiseal gineadeach ( however you spell it ) , The Spailpin Fanach etc etc are about as relevant to myself and my life as the Japanese Volleyball team. I wish my kids to get a twentyfirst century education. Strong on Maths, English, Sciences, Humanities, Modern Languages, etc etc. They will need this as the labour market is tough out there. As the country becomes more and more multicultural, the relevance of Irish is increasingly becoming something divisive. The insiders who have the language, versus everybody else. Well paid teachers, translators and RTE personnel all doing quite well at the taxpayers expense. It is all looking like a cosy Cartel.

Compulsory Leaving Cert Irish for entry into NUI universities is actually discriminating against those born on in this Republic and in favour of everybody else. The points race is tough, and this rule is making it very tough for many of the 'New Irish' to get into places like UCD and UCC. You spend ( or i would say waste ) 14 years of your life learning a language that you will probably never need, nor use, nor even like.

You may choose to support Manchester United, i may choose to ignore the football. You may choose Mechanical Drawing at school, i may choose otherwise. No compunction, respect and treat us all as individuals.

Many Canadians do not learn French, and that is ok. Many Irish do not speak Irish, and that appears to be some kind of a sin that hangs about our neck like an albatross. Well, i do not wish to go to confession, and i do not wish to say the Rosary As Gaeilge. Thank you.

At a time when many of those in Ulster are fighting for the right to opt in, to choose irish. Can we in the republic also be given a choice on a law that is nearly 100 years old ?

So what about some fairness, even if you can argue that the language is alive and well ( Man Utd, Christianity, Mechanical Drawing, alcoholism all very vibrant in this country ) , let us choose to opt out ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding

I for one am happy with the status quo and see no need to change other then that I would like to see the compulsory element extended to all .
I don't detect any mass movement to remove compulsory Irish and as such I believe my views reflect the majority opinion. You however appear utterly obsessed with the topic.
Irish is not compulsory in the UK or US, it is compulsory here. You are free to move to these countries where it will not be compulsory.
 

gatsbygirl20

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Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,551
Regarding the other discussion on here, about whether the Irish language is dead or alive, there arises another question. The question of giving consent and readily embracing the language or in opting out.

Many would accept that Christianity is alive and well across much of the globe, but this does not prevent the irish discussing whether they wish their kids to opt out from Religious education at schools. The 'Educate together' schools have made great strides in enabling a secular education is this 'Republic'. Now a cornerstone in any 'Republic' is freedom of speech, freedom of association and the democratic freedom to choose.

Peig, An tuiseal gineadeach ( however you spell it ) , The Spailpin Fanach etc etc are about as relevant to myself and my life as the Japanese Volleyball team. I wish my kids to get a twentyfirst century education. Strong on Maths, English, Sciences, Humanities, Modern Languages, etc etc. They will need this as the labour market is tough out there. As the country becomes more and more multicultural, the relevance of Irish is increasingly becoming something divisive. The insiders who have the language, versus everybody else. Well paid teachers, translators and RTE personnel all doing quite well at the taxpayers expense. It is all looking like a cosy Cartel.

Compulsory Leaving Cert Irish for entry into NUI universities is actually discriminating against those born on in this Republic and in favour of everybody else. The points race is tough, and this rule is making it very tough for many of the 'New Irish' to get into places like UCD and UCC. You spend ( or i would say waste ) 14 years of your life learning a language that you will probably never need, nor use, nor even like.

You may choose to support Manchester United, i may choose to ignore the football. You may choose Mechanical Drawing at school, i may choose otherwise. No compunction, respect and treat us all as individuals.

Many Canadians do not learn French, and that is ok. Many Irish do not speak Irish, and that appears to be some kind of a sin that hangs about our neck like an albatross. Well, i do not wish to go to confession, and i do not wish to say the Rosary As Gaeilge. Thank you.

At a time when many of those in Ulster are fighting for the right to opt in, to choose irish. Can we in the republic also be given a choice on a law that is nearly 100 years old ?

So what about some fairness, even if you can argue that the language is alive and well ( Man Utd, Christianity, Mechanical Drawing, alcoholism all very vibrant in this country ) , let us choose to opt out ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding
The fear --and I am afraid that it is probably justified--is that if Irish is dropped as a core subject from the national curriculum, then it will totally die in a generation or two.

But there is no question but that compulsion is doing great damage.

Nothing else is "compulsory" these days.

Think of the world our young people grow up in. From the time they can toddle they are allowed choose what to wear, what to play with, etc. It is all about letting them make their own choices

Great emphasis is placed in second level schools on allowing young people to choose their favourite subjects...pick their own CAO courses...Parents buy into this idea too: "I just want him to be happy..to choose the course he would enjoy"

In this world, compulsory Irish stands out like an outdated relic of the old, authoritarian, repressive world of the past where parents, teachers and priests ruled with a rod of iron and children had no voice.

Telling them "you HAVE to do it" does not work these days
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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Imagine the Brexit will flood Dublin with new jobs in Financial Services. Do you think any of these new employers will give a damn if you can speak irish ? And when recruiting staff they can choose between Croydon Nigel who spent much of his schooling becoming a numbers whizz and likes lager or they can employ Aodh who can describe the lobster pots on the Blasket Islands in rich and flowery Irish.
 
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talkingshop

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The fear --and I am afraid that it is probably justified--is that if Irish is dropped as a core subject from the national curriculum, then it will totally die in a generation or two.

But there is no question but that compulsion is doing great damage.

Nothing else is "compulsory" these days.

Think of the world our young people grow up in. From the time they can toddle they are allowed choose what to wear, what to play with, etc. It is all about letting them make their own choices

Great emphasis is placed in second level schools on allowing young people to choose their favourite subjects...pick their own CAO courses...Parents buy into this idea too: "I just want him to be happy..to choose the course he would enjoy"

In this world, compulsory Irish stands out like an outdated relic of the old, authoritarian, repressive world of the past where parents, teachers and priests ruled with a rod of iron and children had no voice.

Telling them "you HAVE to do it" does not work these days
But they "have" to do English, Maths, CSPE, and various other subjects, haven't they?
 

wombat

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I remember canvassing for FG before the 2011 election - remember the bank bailout, the IMF, cuts and taxes? I was amazed at the number of people who raised the proposal to drop compulsory Irish as their main objection to voting for FG.
 

wombat

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Imagine the Brexit will flood Dublin with new jobs in Financial Services. Do you think any of these new employers will give a damn if you can speak irish ?
Most of them won't even care if you're Irish:lol:
 

gatsbygirl20

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But they "have" to do English, Maths, CSPE, and various other subjects, haven't they?
Yes, they have to do English and maths. But they can choose a language. There is always great excitement among the first years on the topic of whether they will choose Spanish or French or German.

The real problem starts at senior cycle. At that stage they know usually what they are aiming for in Third Level. They know what their strengths are--and languages may not be their thing.

Having to drag Irish around like an albatross around their neck really annoys them. I have seen this. They resent it, and it gives them a very bad attitude generally towards the language.

Having said that, in my own case, I see Irish as no load. It is a beautiful language if properly taught. I loved it. But then languages were my "thing". I loved words and the beautiful Irish sounds, idioms, poetic turns of phrase. Although, alas I have forgotten it all.
 

Niall996

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Regarding the other discussion on here, about whether the Irish language is dead or alive, there arises another question. The question of giving consent and readily embracing the language or in opting out.

Many would accept that Christianity is alive and well across much of the globe, but this does not prevent the irish discussing whether they wish their kids to opt out from Religious education at schools. The 'Educate together' schools have made great strides in enabling a secular education is this 'Republic'. Now a cornerstone in any 'Republic' is freedom of speech, freedom of association and the democratic freedom to choose.

Peig, An tuiseal gineadeach ( however you spell it ) , The Spailpin Fanach etc etc are about as relevant to myself and my life as the Japanese Volleyball team. I wish my kids to get a twentyfirst century education. Strong on Maths, English, Sciences, Humanities, Modern Languages, etc etc. They will need this as the labour market is tough out there. As the country becomes more and more multicultural, the relevance of Irish is increasingly becoming something divisive. The insiders who have the language, versus everybody else. Well paid teachers, translators and RTE personnel all doing quite well at the taxpayers expense. It is all looking like a cosy Cartel.

Compulsory Leaving Cert Irish for entry into NUI universities is actually discriminating against those born on in this Republic and in favour of everybody else. The points race is tough, and this rule is making it very tough for many of the 'New Irish' to get into places like UCD and UCC. You spend ( or i would say waste ) 14 years of your life learning a language that you will probably never need, nor use, nor even like.

You may choose to support Manchester United, i may choose to ignore the football. You may choose Mechanical Drawing at school, i may choose otherwise. No compunction, respect and treat us all as individuals.

Many Canadians do not learn French, and that is ok. Many Irish do not speak Irish, and that appears to be some kind of a sin that hangs about our neck like an albatross. Well, i do not wish to go to confession, and i do not wish to say the Rosary As Gaeilge. Thank you.

At a time when many of those in Ulster are fighting for the right to opt in, to choose irish. Can we in the republic also be given a choice on a law that is nearly 100 years old ?

So what about some fairness, even if you can argue that the language is alive and well ( Man Utd, Christianity, Mechanical Drawing, alcoholism all very vibrant in this country ) , let us choose to opt out ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding
Can kids opt out by just not particupating in Irish class and not sitting the exams? What happens if they don't go? Is it something you can arrange with the Principle?
 

TheField

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So what about some fairness, even if you can argue that the language is alive and well ( Man Utd, Christianity, Mechanical Drawing, alcoholism all very vibrant in this country ) , let us choose to opt out ?
Well you can opt out to some extent - you could choose to educate your own children and ignore Irish language. There are many 3rd level courses that require a basic pass in ordinary level Irish but also other ways into the system. And of course, there are a good few children who have exemptions from Irish for one reason or another in the formal education system.

But of course, a 'normal' child can't opt out of Irish in our primary & secondary education. They have to do c 14 years of it and that's about it. It's the law of the land as far as formal schooling is concerned. It really is a depressing waste of time & resources to see such wastage when a far healthier result for the language would be to facilitate a love for it through personal interest and non compulsion.
 

razorblade

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Why be forced to learn a language thats only spoken by a tiny fringe in our society.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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Can kids opt out by just not particupating in Irish class and not sitting the exams? What happens if they don't go? Is it something you can arrange with the Principle?
and automatically get excluded from half of the University places available ?

by the extension of your logic, why not also include classes in Eskimo language and have the kids not participating also ?
 

NYCKY

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Most languages are not widely spoken outside of their own regions or countries, outside of Norway, who speaks Norwegian, ditto Slovakia, Iceland, Greece etc. That doesn't stop these countries using their own languages. In fact all but a handful of languages like English, Spanish, French and a couple of others are not widely spoken internationally.

The language is part of your history and culture, whether you like it or not. Learning about Irish history or geography isn't likely to get you a job in the financial services or in construction but that wouldn't be a reason to opt out of learning those subjects either.
 

Mick Mac

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Good for you.

It's been a terrible wrong that we have tried to define irishness as including gaeilge as 'it's' language.

We even have gone so far to call it Irish as if it and it alone was the language of Irish culture.

You can choose how you want to define the language of the Irish from your cultural space. It's about time we all moved on from this.
 

Herr Rommel

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Why be forced to learn a language thats only spoken by a tiny fringe in our society.

It was beaten into me in the 70's and 80's and I worked my arse off to get a B in my leaving cert nearly thirty years ago which was the last time I had to use it.
 


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