IBEC Tells Us We Have Never Had It So Good

General Urko

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It's called life and it's a bit of a gamble and a lottery for most... :roll:

FFS who in their right minds thinks the future can be guaranteed these days?

There's no guarantees, period.
But coming out and telling us, all is well and fine and will be so into the future is the gist of what the lovely folk in IBEC are telling us!
And re the life lottery, why should the economic circumstances of your birth, ever be by far the primary factor for virtually everyone in determining how far they will get in life?
 


robut

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The median salary in Ireland, last I heard and before €45K being stated as the average industrial wage was €29K. But if anything this confirms the reality that those at nthe top are being paid savage money relative to everyone else.
Also wages in The BMW area are quite low!
Indeed I was asking mates of mine recently what's the average salary for an accountant in the West of Ireland - now I mean private sector, all qualified from Chartered to CPA and all others, both genders and the lad with 1 year post qualification experience and the lady with 40 years experience, the bang on average (not median)>
They usually say (and these are mostly accountants who have worked in Dublin) between €70K and €80K, which might in itself indicate they don't understand the concept of average let alone the median!
The answer according to one recruitment website for the average pay of an accountant in The West of Ireland is €37K!
Which is terribly low for the job and probably most chartered accountant equivalents in Warsaw would earn more!
You are living dangerously General :D

No stats, no links .. just "hearsay" and "barstool stuff" .. you know what happens here at PIE when people go this route :D
 

General Urko

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You are living dangerously General :D

No stats, no links .. just "hearsay" and "barstool stuff" .. you know what happens here at PIE when people go this route :D
No I saw it on a recruitment site and perhaps, you have no experience of West of Ireland Sleeveen Employers, but it certainly rings true!
I am consistent in telling ye -

Most BMW Employers = Nax masquerading as such!
 

General Urko

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robut

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No I saw it on a recruitment site and perhaps, you have no experience of West of Ireland Sleeveen Employers, but it certainly rings true!
I am consistent in telling ye -

Most BMW Employers = Nax masquerading as such!
Again .. General, said with wry smile.

I know what you are talking about & believe you, just saying others here have to have the stats or links, otherwise taken as untrue.

Experienced Solicitors working for a firm outside Dublin would be similar - €40kish to 50k. In Dublin, double that. Again from aquantances and friends in that area ( no link :D ).
 

Spanner Island

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But coming out and telling us, all is well and fine and will be so into the future is the gist of what the lovely folk in IBEC are telling us!
Nah they're not. They're saying we're out of the recovery woods more or less (compared to where we were for most of the last decade post-crash) and that the economic foundation is more stable and sustainable than the last one which was a thin layer of unsustainable nonsense built on debt that cracked and fell apart.

That's all I get out of what they're saying. It's basically what the Govt has been saying for the last couple of budgets... there's limited fiscal space appearing which is delivering bits and pieces of money they can spend and that they're not cutting the sh!t out of everything like they were doing...

And re the life lottery, why should the economic circumstances of your birth, ever be by far the primary factor for virtually everyone in determining how far they will get in life?
It shouldn't but then we're nowhere near the kind of Utopia you seem to imagine... and Ireland ain't the worst place in the world when it comes to opportunities either...

Of course improvements can always be made but we're far from the bottom despite what many on here like to pretend.
 

robut

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Checking other forums, news article comments, social media for reaction to these IBEC uterances ..

On one hand IBEC is saying "Irish households have never been wealthier, Economy beyond the recovery phase" - on the other hand most on the ground from above sources etc are going HUH?

Genuine question - Why the mismatch?
 

General Urko

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Checking other forums, social media for reaction to IBEC uterances ..

On one hand IBEC is saying "Irish households have never been wealthier, Economy beyond the recovery phase" - on the other hand most on the ground from above sources etc are going HUH?

Genuine question - Why the mismatch?
Probably because the bosses of IBEC member organizations have never had it so good!
 

General Urko

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Apparently, psychologists tell us the most dangerous delusion of all is a self sustaining one!
 

robut

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Probably because the bosses of IBEC member organizations have never had it so good!
Seriously though? If Irish households HAVE never been wealthier & the Economy IS beyond the recovery phase why do so many not see/feel this still?

Is it a lag and that feeling will be with you shortly, just wait kinda thing?

Is it an inside / outside Dublin thing .. 2 economies?

What is it? Why?
 

robut

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For anyone interested & might answer my Qs above about mismatch tween what IBEC is saying and how people are feeling on the ground:

https://twitter.com/IvanYatesNT/status/950395578877403136

Coming up the show - the stats say the economy is experiencing a boom but are people feeling it? @JimPowerEcon and Danny McCoy @ibec_irl discuss.
( Newstalk at 4pm )

AND

https://twitter.com/ibec_irl/status/950397787933429760

.@GerardBrady100 will be chatting with @cooper_m on the @lstwrd at 16:30 detailing how the latest economic phase of growth is now more sustainable than the ‘boom’ period.
( Matt Cooper at 4:30 )
 

General Urko

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Seriously though? If Irish households HAVE never been wealthier & the Economy IS beyond the recovery phase why do so many not see/feel this still?

Is it a lag and that feeling will be with you shortly, just wait kinda thing?

Is it an inside / outside Dublin thing .. 2 economies?

What is it? Why?
It's not factoring in the gap between ordinary Irish Folk and there supposed betters!
 

Spanner Island

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Checking other forums, social media for reaction to IBEC uterances ..

On one hand IBEC is saying "Irish households have never been wealthier, Economy beyond the recovery phase" - on the other hand most on the ground from above sources etc are going HUH?

Genuine question - Why the mismatch?
A lot of the 'wealth' in the 'boom' was credit...

It was fake 'wealth', fictitious bullsh!t... people borrowing too much to pay for houses that cost too much etc. and then borrowing more using their overpriced houses that were only ever going to appreciate in value and never drop as collateral in order to buy cars and holidays and all the rest of it... blah blah blah...

It's all well documented... the 'boom' was bullsh!t...

What I take from IBEC now and from the last couple of budgets is that the floor is more solid this time round and that those who aren't poor and who didn't lose their homes etc... ie the vast majority of 'just about managings' aren't in such a precarious position as they might have been a while back...

Homelessness and poverty are still a disgrace but for most people the 'jam' is a little thicker and the toast is better quality bread that is less likely to crumble and fall apart under them...

Is everyone rich or going to get as rich as they felt during the 'boom'?

Nah... I seriously doubt it... so there is probably a generation who grew up then who will always feel they got a raw deal because times will never be as good in the real world as they are in a 'boom' built on bullsh!t...
 

General Urko

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A lot of the 'wealth' in the 'boom' was credit...

It was fake 'wealth', fictitious bullsh!t... people borrowing too much to pay for houses that cost too much etc. and then borrowing more using their overpriced houses that were never going to drop in value as collateral in order to buy cars and holidays and all the rest of it... blah blah blah...

It's all well documented... the 'boom' was bullsh!t...

What I take from IBEC now and from the last couple of budgets is that the floor is more solid this time round and that those who aren't poor and who didn't lose their homes etc... ie the vast majority of 'just about managings' aren't in such a precarious position as they might have been a while back...

Homelessness and poverty are still a disgrace but for most people the 'jam' is a little thicker and the toast is better quality bread that is less likely to crumble and fall apart under them...

Is everyone rich or going to get as rich as they felt during the 'boom'?

Nah... I seriously doubt it... so there is probably a generation who grew up then who will always feel they got a raw deal because times will never be as good in the real world as they are in a 'boom' built on bullsh!t...
Yes, this time it is different and that will be shown in the response at the end of it, for sure!
 

Spanner Island

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Yes, this time it is different and that will be shown in the response at the end of it, for sure!
If a credit bubble can be avoided it will be different.

It's still a pain in the arse and property prices are a disgrace... but they're not fueled by an orgy of credit this time... this time it's a lack of supply and a failure to develop a robust rental sector with proper protections for renters etc... and of course the selling off of vast swathes of housing stock to vulture funds etc.
 

General Urko

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If a credit bubble can be avoided it will be different.

It's still a pain in the arse and property prices are a disgrace... but they're not fueled by an orgy of credit this time... this time it's a lack of supply and a failure to develop a robust rental sector with proper protections for renters etc... and of course the selling off of housing stock to vulture funds etc.
Bringing housing supply into equilibrium with demand through social housing especially, will lead to FFG supporters moaning their holes off about being in negative equity!
No it will be different because when the shytebags as they did the last time, come for their next bailout, which will be given by their shytebag political mates without question, the response will be substantially different from ordinary people from the last time!
 

Mrwoody

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How is this not a debt credit bubble when the ECB have been printing up billions for years with no end in sight, in there ibec report they say businesses are spending one billion a month on plant and machinery which is a record, but what they dont say is all that is on finance, i know of people in my industry who are getting 100% finance on machinery worth 1 million then taking on contracts for no margin to compete and undercut the fella whos just breaking even and hoping for the best, it will all end in tears.
 

General Urko

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How is this not a debt credit bubble when the ECB have been printing up billions for years with no end in sight, in there ibec report they say businesses are spending one billion a month on plant and machinery which is a record, but what they dont say is all that is on finance, i know of people in my industry who are getting 100% finance on machinery worth 1 million then taking on contracts for no margin to compete and undercut the fella whos just breaking even and hoping for the best, it will all end in tears.
QE reckoned to end around 1st or 2nd quarter in 2019!
Obviously it has to end sooner or later!
And interest rates can only go in one direction.
Inflation which they seem to be frothing at the mouth to create, massively impacts negatively on ordinary people!
Indeed this will not end well except of course if you're from the great and the good, in which case as always, you will be fine, indeed, may be even better than ever!:mad:
 


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