ICTU visit to Israel , Gaza and West Bank.



L'Chaim

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Pity they didn't go to Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, where there's supposed to be up to 4 million Palestinian refugees who not only can't have trade unions to represent them, but they are excluded from being allowed to work in most jobs.
 

kintama

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They won't have to if the refugees can return to their homes and land free from the threat of murder which incidentally is the reason they are refugees. There you go simple answer to the matter you have just raised.
 

L'Chaim

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kintama said:
They won't have to if the refugees can return to their homes and land free from the threat of murder which incidentally is the reason they are refugees. There you go simple answer to the matter you have just raised.


I wasn't asking any question at all. Just pointing out a fact. And most of those so called 4 million Palestinian refugees never even set a foot in Israel. They were all born in either Syria, Jordan or Lebanon. Some of them are up to sixty years of age now and they have never had anything like equal rights in the Arab countries they were born in, never mind trade unions to represent them.
 

L'Chaim

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kintama said:
What part of the fact that I made reference to do you have a problem with?
The Eurovision song contest :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

kintama

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Can't spot any reference to Eurovision on this thread. You are obviously working to hard up there in the Embassy . Has Yanshuf gone off on holidays and left you on your own?
 

Roisin

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L'Chaim said:
they have never had anything like equal rights in the Arab countries they were born in, never mind trade unions to represent them.
That's a fair point, but because other Arab nations treat Palestinians abysmally is not justification for Israel to do likewise.
 

L'Chaim

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Roisin said:
L'Chaim said:
they have never had anything like equal rights in the Arab countries they were born in, never mind trade unions to represent them.
That's a fair point, but because other Arab nations treat Palestinians abysmally is not justification for Israel to do likewise.
But the Israelis don't. Palestinian citizens of Israel are allowed to work and they receive similar pay and benefits as their Jewish counterparts. The ICTU can have no complaints on that score. Palestinian citizens of Israel can attend Israeli schools and universities the same as Jews. They don't have those rights in the Arab nations they have been living in for the last 60 years. They can run their own businesses. They can't do that in the Arab states they have been living in since 1948. Every state run company in Israel has to have at least one Arab Israeli on it's board. That's not the case in their 'host' Arab countries. Arab Israelis have full voting rights and representation in the Knesset (Israeli parliament). They've no such rights in the Arab countries they've been living in for the last 60 years......even those who were born in those countries, and that would be any of them that are under the age of 60. In Israel Arab israelis can practice law. Not so in Syria, Jordan or Lebanon. In fact in those countries Palestinians cannot work in jobs like law. The only jobs that are open to them in those Arab states are menial jobs.

Do you know that one of the most sought after commodities in the Middle-East is Israeli citizenship or residency status. Every year thousands upon thousands of Arabs are trying to find some way to get into Israel and make it their home. They want to live in Israel because they know they would have a much better life than they have in their own countries. Jerusalem and Tel Aviv have massive problems trying to cope with the amount of Arab homosexuals who are trying to claim refugee status. And that's only the homosexuals. Anyone in the Arab world who is facing persecution or discrimination is doing whatever they can, either legally or illegally, to get into Israel, to escape this persecution or discrimination they suffer under Arab rule.
 

FamilyGuy

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L'Chaim:
The ICTU can have no complaints on that score.
I am sure ICTU can decide that for themselves. They dont need the advice of the Israeli embassy to decide such things
 

CelticAtheist

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L'Chaim said:
Roisin said:
[quote="L'Chaim":39juypd6]they have never had anything like equal rights in the Arab countries they were born in, never mind trade unions to represent them.
That's a fair point, but because other Arab nations treat Palestinians abysmally is not justification for Israel to do likewise.
But the Israelis don't. Palestinian citizens of Israel are allowed to work and they receive similar pay and benefits as their Jewish counterparts.[/quote:39juypd6]
So did the Irish under the British Imperial rule.
L'Chaim, were you the cheeky ******* who told a committee that the Israeli-Palestinian situation couldn't be solved in a similar way to Northern Ireland?
 

fergalr

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Are they going to unionise the Palestinians?
 

Roisin

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L'Chaim said:
Roisin said:
[quote="L'Chaim":3u3mzqi9]they have never had anything like equal rights in the Arab countries they were born in, never mind trade unions to represent them.
That's a fair point, but because other Arab nations treat Palestinians abysmally is not justification for Israel to do likewise.
But the Israelis don't. Palestinian citizens of Israel are allowed to work and they receive similar pay and benefits as their Jewish counterparts. The ICTU can have no complaints on that score. Palestinian citizens of Israel can attend Israeli schools and universities the same as Jews. They don't have those rights in the Arab nations they have been living in for the last 60 years. They can run their own businesses. They can't do that in the Arab states they have been living in since 1948. Every state run company in Israel has to have at least one Arab Israeli on it's board. That's not the case in their 'host' Arab countries. Arab Israelis have full voting rights and representation in the Knesset (Israeli parliament). They've no such rights in the Arab countries they've been living in for the last 60 years......even those who were born in those countries, and that would be any of them that are under the age of 60. In Israel Arab israelis can practice law. Not so in Syria, Jordan or Lebanon. In fact in those countries Palestinians cannot work in jobs like law. The only jobs that are open to them in those Arab states are menial jobs.

Do you know that one of the most sought after commodities in the Middle-East is Israeli citizenship or residency status. Every year thousands upon thousands of Arabs are trying to find some way to get into Israel and make it their home. They want to live in Israel because they know they would have a much better life than they have in their own countries. Jerusalem and Tel Aviv have massive problems trying to cope with the amount of Arab homosexuals who are trying to claim refugee status. And that's only the homosexuals. Anyone in the Arab world who is facing persecution or discrimination is doing whatever they can, either legally or illegally, to get into Israel, to escape this persecution or discrimination they suffer under Arab rule.[/quote:3u3mzqi9]

Sorry, I was too lazy to type a lot of words and wasn't clear. Yes, I know Israel allows Palestinians to vote and so on. Problem with that is that you have constructed a permanent majority for yourselves by use of other measures against the Palestinians. Or do you anticipate a time when all Pals can return to the extent they would outnumber the Jews?
 

L'Chaim

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Roisin said:
Sorry, I was too lazy to type a lot of words and wasn't clear. Yes, I know Israel allows Palestinians to vote and so on. Problem with that is that you have constructed a permanent majority for yourselves by use of other measures against the Palestinians. Or do you anticipate a time when all Pals can return to the extent they would outnumber the Jews?
Back in 1949 Israel offered to allow Palestinian families that had been separated during the 1948 war to return, offered them compensation for abandoned lands and agreed to allow 100,000 refugees to return. All the countries holding the refugees (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) had to do was to agree to peace and agree not to attack Israel. The Arabs rejected all of this because they were unwilling to take any action that might be constructed as recognition of Israel. So as a result the refugees were confined to camps in their host countries. Now that offer was made by the israelis and it was rejected. That offer was refused and in doing so, the Palestinian leaders and other Arab leaders saw that it was taken off the negotiating table. And that resulted in the absentee property law being introduced in 1950, where basically the Israeli state took over abandoned Palestinian land. 100,000 of them could have come back but decisions by their own leaders prevented them from returning. So now, 60 years on there are very few Palestinians still alive who were actually born in Israel. All the so called refugees who were born since 1948 were born in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or some other Arab country. Now if they want to come to live in Israel they can by all means apply.........just like the laws of most other countries.

But it should also be taken into account that most of these so called refugees, who were never absorbed into their host countries (unlike the 1 million Jewish refugees who were expelled from their Arab homes in 1948 and who were immediately absorbed into Israel and made Israeli citizens), don't want to return to Israel. In Richard Crowley's book No Man's Land, he reports that a survey taken by refugees in refugee camps, the majority said that they would not want to return to their ancestral homes if the Israeli government was in control. A minority said they would prefer to go to an independent Palestinian state, but the majority said that they would prefer to emigrate to the EU. I have to say that it does tickle me in a way, to think of nearly 4 million so called Palestinian refugees making their way to Europe.
 

CelticAtheist

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L'Chaim said:
The Arabs rejected all of this because they were unwilling to take any action that might be constructed as recognition of Israel.
At the time, that wasn't unreasonable.
Israel wasn't exactly founded on a very strong legal basis....
The Bible isn't an excuse to immigrant into and take other people's lands.

And don't try and say that religion wasn't the reason behind it, all one has to do to destroy that argument is quote the Law of Return.
 

White Horse

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Déise said:
While there are problems in Syria and Lebanon, Israel claims to be the only democracy in the Middle East. Therefore it should hold itself, and be held by the rest of the world, to a higher standard.
That is pure ballacks. All nations should be judged by the same standards. It is that logic that tolerates dictators such as Mugabe.
 

CelticAtheist

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White Horse said:
[quote="Déise":19negnur]While there are problems in Syria and Lebanon, Israel claims to be the only democracy in the Middle East. Therefore it should hold itself, and be held by the rest of the world, to a higher standard.
That is pure ballacks. All nations should be judged by the same standards. It is that logic that tolerates dictators such as Mugabe.[/quote:19negnur]
Exactly.

Israel being a democracy has little to do with the disregard they have for peace....
 

zakalwe

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CelticAtheist said:
L'Chaim said:
The Arabs rejected all of this because they were unwilling to take any action that might be constructed as recognition of Israel.
At the time, that wasn't unreasonable.
Israel wasn't exactly founded on a very strong legal basis....
The Bible isn't an excuse to immigrant into and take other people's lands.

And don't try and say that religion wasn't the reason behind it, all one has to do to destroy that argument is quote the Law of Return.
the UN founded the state of israel. its pretty much as legitimate as you can get.
and one of the superpowers in the UN back then banned religion (USSR).
 

Thac0man

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Wow, the ICTU on a junket. What a suprise. :roll:
 


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