Ideas, beliefs and party politics

RobB

Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
55
Reading through Politics.ie sometimes quite annoys me as frequently those on the forums who are affiliated with a particular party feel the need to defend every action of that party no matter what the circumstances. I would consider myself a Fine Gael supporter and would vote for that party but quite a lot of the time I would find myself disagreeing with personalities, opinions and policy of other party supporters.

I would consider myself to the right of centre in terms of the political spectrum. I believe in small government and low taxes. I think that all of us have the right to help from the state when we are in need but I do beleive it is our own responsibilty to ultimately make what we will of our own lives and any rewards from bettering yourself should come back to you. I am socially quite liberal thinking and believe people should have the right to do what they like with their own lives so long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. In terms of political parties Fine Gael does seem to be the party that best reflects my views and offers me the closest of all parties to the vision of Ireland I would like to see but alot of the time I end up disagreeing with policy and have been disappointed with behaviour within the party when it comes to some personnel also.

I don't believe that PJ Sheehan's behaviour should have been just dismissed as easily as it was and when I hear people like Michael Ring and James Bannon in the Dail it makes me cringe to think they are part of the party I want to be in government. I did not support FG voting for the bank guarantee and have disagreed with other policies such as drug testing of teenagers in schools from the last election which I thought was a ridiculous policy.

No political party has the monopoly on good ideas and no political party represents my views 100% but I do find myself agreeing with a majority of those of FG. I guess though what I'm asking is do others who would in general supoort the views of a particular political party find themeselves annoyed by or disagreeing with their party policy and If so do we have the best system (whip) by which to run government or would people favour a move to a more independent voting system within the Dail.
 


Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,742
Hello RobB, you are not alone. I think anyone involved in political parties feels the same as you do at times, and if they don't they are of no use. Yes Men are for ego building, and God knows an awful lot of our politicians do not need their egos built up anymore. So no harm in disagreeing or disliking some members of your party.

As for the Parliamentary Party laying down the law for the whole of the party, this is appalling. Yeah, they'll come to constituency meetings and nod sagely and shake your hand but when they go back into The Diplomatic Immune Area, Dáil Eireann, they do what the Whip tells them to do. After all, their egos are demanding that they gain prestige within that Parliamentary Party and you do not get prestige if you buck the system. You get side-lined, so you don't, buck the PP. Nope, not a clever idea, hence the PP remains in control. Add that to the Rules of The House and our deputies are well and truly corralled. Then add, in an awful lot of cases, the bonus of more cash than you ever imagined, and you have if not eliminated the zeal that first sent you to the Dáil completely, you have certainly taken the shine off.

The Constitution needs to be changed. Big time. In my humble opinion.
 

Luigi Vampa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
Reading through Politics.ie sometimes quite annoys me as frequently those on the forums who are affiliated with a particular party feel the need to defend every action of that party no matter what the circumstances. I would consider myself a Fine Gael supporter and would vote for that party but quite a lot of the time I would find myself disagreeing with personalities, opinions and policy of other party supporters.

I would consider myself to the right of centre in terms of the political spectrum. I believe in small government and low taxes. I think that all of us have the right to help from the state when we are in need but I do beleive it is our own responsibilty to ultimately make what we will of our own lives and any rewards from bettering yourself should come back to you. I am socially quite liberal thinking and believe people should have the right to do what they like with their own lives so long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. In terms of political parties Fine Gael does seem to be the party that best reflects my views and offers me the closest of all parties to the vision of Ireland I would like to see but alot of the time I end up disagreeing with policy and have been disappointed with behaviour within the party when it comes to some personnel also.

I don't believe that PJ Sheehan's behaviour should have been just dismissed as easily as it was and when I hear people like Michael Ring and James Bannon in the Dail it makes me cringe to think they are part of the party I want to be in government. I did not support FG voting for the bank guarantee and have disagreed with other policies such as drug testing of teenagers in schools from the last election which I thought was a ridiculous policy.

No political party has the monopoly on good ideas and no political party represents my views 100% but I do find myself agreeing with a majority of those of FG. I guess though what I'm asking is do others who would in general supoort the views of a particular political party find themeselves annoyed by or disagreeing with their party policy and If so do we have the best system (whip) by which to run government or would people favour a move to a more independent voting system within the Dail.
You sound like a reasonable enough fellow, who thinks things through, therefore it is very strange that you have chosen to support FG, who are the same as FF, just with different cronies, and even more right wing. It is long overdue that we move on from civil war parties, they're relevance has long ceased, and now it's just about cronyism.
 

JMcGynty

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
278
You sound like a reasonable enough fellow, who thinks things through, therefore it is very strange that you have chosen to support FG, who are the same as FF, just with different cronies, and even more right wing. It is long overdue that we move on from civil war parties, they're relevance has long ceased, and now it's just about cronyism.
So tell us who do you support, if you want to tell us who not to support you must have another in mind
 

RobB

Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
55
You sound like a reasonable enough fellow, who thinks things through, therefore it is very strange that you have chosen to support FG, who are the same as FF, just with different cronies, and even more right wing. It is long overdue that we move on from civil war parties, they're relevance has long ceased, and now it's just about cronyism.
Well what party would you vote for that does not have its own cronies and considering what I've described as my own views. I would happily vote for another party if they could do that but which party is it?
 

Luigi Vampa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
So tell us who do you support, if you want to tell us who not to support you must have another in mind
Well what party would you vote for that does not have its own cronies and considering what I've described as my own views. I would happily vote for another party if they could do that but which party is it?
I don’t particularly care what party people vote for, as long as most people are not stupid enough to vote FF/FG we have some hope of a decent future.
 

Tedkins

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
6,648
Hahaha. Blueshirts...

I find it amazing that anyone would hold that against 21st Century Fine Gael. As I understand it, they were only a faction within Cumann na Gaedhael anyway.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
I have only ever voted for Fianna Fail. I will not be doing so next time (or time after that either). The problem is that having been in FF, meant there was no need to consider ideology. So apart from the fact I will be voting ABFF (in order to hold FF accountable for the mess caused by Ahern/McCreevy/Cowen) I still don't know the order.

FG - great TD, superb spokesman, shame about the party leader and the dislikable element of the party. Their reform agenda is good, but they are essentially a polite version of FF with different cronies.

Labour - another good candidate. He is an outsider for the seat. I am a big fan if Joan Burton and would love to see her in finance, except that their budget proposals are make believe. I would like to ultimately see a left/right split.

Indo - I don't like the man. He has done little with the small amount ov leverage he had.

Sf - no hope in this constituency. O Snodaigh charge on govt buildings wad a reminder that they are less than democratic. Their finance proposals look good but do not add up. They are the only party which wants national reunification on the realistic agenda.

Greens - will get my last preference.

Thinking of:
Sf, FG, labour, second FG candidate , indo and green.
 

Tim Johnston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
5,075
Reading through Politics.ie sometimes quite annoys me as frequently those on the forums who are affiliated with a particular party feel the need to defend every action of that party no matter what the circumstances. I would consider myself a Fine Gael supporter and would vote for that party but quite a lot of the time I would find myself disagreeing with personalities, opinions and policy of other party supporters.

I would consider myself to the right of centre in terms of the political spectrum. I believe in small government and low taxes. I think that all of us have the right to help from the state when we are in need but I do beleive it is our own responsibilty to ultimately make what we will of our own lives and any rewards from bettering yourself should come back to you. I am socially quite liberal thinking and believe people should have the right to do what they like with their own lives so long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. In terms of political parties Fine Gael does seem to be the party that best reflects my views and offers me the closest of all parties to the vision of Ireland I would like to see but alot of the time I end up disagreeing with policy and have been disappointed with behaviour within the party when it comes to some personnel also.

I don't believe that PJ Sheehan's behaviour should have been just dismissed as easily as it was and when I hear people like Michael Ring and James Bannon in the Dail it makes me cringe to think they are part of the party I want to be in government. I did not support FG voting for the bank guarantee and have disagreed with other policies such as drug testing of teenagers in schools from the last election which I thought was a ridiculous policy.

No political party has the monopoly on good ideas and no political party represents my views 100% but I do find myself agreeing with a majority of those of FG. I guess though what I'm asking is do others who would in general supoort the views of a particular political party find themeselves annoyed by or disagreeing with their party policy and If so do we have the best system (whip) by which to run government or would people favour a move to a more independent voting system within the Dail.
Rob, I agree with nearly everything you've said here, and have pretty much decided to vote FG this time round. Oddly, I've voted Labour in the past as I've felt they were the closest thing to a Liberal party out there and was always impressed with Ruari Quinn. But they've permanently lost my support with their 48% tax band business.

We have a limited amount of choice when it comes to whom we support and often have to make difficult choices. We will never agree 100% with our chosen party, but it's not a case of comparing them to some utopian ideal party, but with the other available options.
 

havesomeimagination

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
189
Rob, I agree with nearly everything you've said here, and have pretty much decided to vote FG this time round. Oddly, I've voted Labour in the past as I've felt they were the closest thing to a Liberal party out there and was always impressed with Ruari Quinn. But they've permanently lost my support with their 48% tax band business.
Genuine question re why people oppose the 48% band - is it because you personally earn over 100k? or because you hope to one day? or for ideological reasons unrelated to your current status or future prospects?
 

Luigi Vampa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
Man up. Do you think Fine Gael is a Nazi Party? Do you want to say that explicitly here or do you want to use sissy FF innuendos?
Don't be hysterical, but we all know that a modern right wing Blueshirt mentality is alive and well in FG.
 

Tim Johnston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
5,075
Genuine question re why people oppose the 48% band - is it because you personally earn over 100k? or because you hope to one day? or for ideological reasons unrelated to your current status or future prospects?
personally - a little of both. My household pays what I consider to be too much tax, and I find it 'ideologically' abhorrent that the state takes such a large amount of what its citizens earn.
One could counter by saying that it's very easy for those who won't be affected by it to call for higher tax rates for higher earners.
 

Tedkins

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
6,648
Can anyone seriously make the anti-48% tax band in the current climate though? There's a pretty huge deficit there and it can't be dealt with through public spending cuts alone. Th 48% rate seems eminenetly sensible to me, even if it was only to be temporary.
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,124
personally - a little of both. My household pays what I consider to be too much tax, and I find it 'ideologically' abhorrent that the state takes such a large amount of what its citizens earn.
One could counter by saying that it's very easy for those who won't be affected by it to call for higher tax rates for higher earners.
You pay a very low proportion of yourincome by way of income tax. Almost certainly less than 35%. This should be corrected in next 4 years.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,468
Reading through Politics.ie sometimes quite annoys me as frequently those on the forums who are affiliated with a particular party feel the need to defend every action of that party no matter what the circumstances. I would consider myself a Fine Gael supporter and would vote for that party but quite a lot of the time I would find myself disagreeing with personalities, opinions and policy of other party supporters.

I would consider myself to the right of centre in terms of the political spectrum. I believe in small government and low taxes. I think that all of us have the right to help from the state when we are in need but I do beleive it is our own responsibilty to ultimately make what we will of our own lives and any rewards from bettering yourself should come back to you. I am socially quite liberal thinking and believe people should have the right to do what they like with their own lives so long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. In terms of political parties Fine Gael does seem to be the party that best reflects my views and offers me the closest of all parties to the vision of Ireland I would like to see but alot of the time I end up disagreeing with policy and have been disappointed with behaviour within the party when it comes to some personnel also.

I don't believe that PJ Sheehan's behaviour should have been just dismissed as easily as it was and when I hear people like Michael Ring and James Bannon in the Dail it makes me cringe to think they are part of the party I want to be in government. I did not support FG voting for the bank guarantee and have disagreed with other policies such as drug testing of teenagers in schools from the last election which I thought was a ridiculous policy.

No political party has the monopoly on good ideas and no political party represents my views 100% but I do find myself agreeing with a majority of those of FG. I guess though what I'm asking is do others who would in general supoort the views of a particular political party find themeselves annoyed by or disagreeing with their party policy and If so do we have the best system (whip) by which to run government or would people favour a move to a more independent voting system within the Dail.
+100 Excellent OP, a pity the average political party member isn't like you as too many sheep never question the shepherd. Personally I hate the whip system but how to culturally change it will be difficult, Lazarus makes a good point on this:

Hello RobB, you are not alone. I think anyone involved in political parties feels the same as you do at times, and if they don't they are of no use. Yes Men are for ego building, and God knows an awful lot of our politicians do not need their egos built up anymore. So no harm in disagreeing or disliking some members of your party.

As for the Parliamentary Party laying down the law for the whole of the party, this is appalling. Yeah, they'll come to constituency meetings and nod sagely and shake your hand but when they go back into The Diplomatic Immune Area, Dáil Eireann, they do what the Whip tells them to do. After all, their egos are demanding that they gain prestige within that Parliamentary Party and you do not get prestige if you buck the system. You get side-lined, so you don't, buck the PP. Nope, not a clever idea, hence the PP remains in control. Add that to the Rules of The House and our deputies are well and truly corralled. Then add, in an awful lot of cases, the bonus of more cash than you ever imagined, and you have if not eliminated the zeal that first sent you to the Dáil completely, you have certainly taken the shine off.

The Constitution needs to be changed. Big time. In my humble opinion.
+1

It is a pity that some posters are trying to ruin your thread, even if you said that you voted for some extreme left wing group but outlined why and also that you questioned them I would still give you a thumbs up for your OP.

For me at the moment FG probably best reflect my views. However I would like to be able to vote for a Party that is against the bailout as in will guarantee burning the bondholders after the election. Also I feel that I need a party who will reduce regulation for SME's, create a smaller government at every realistic opportunity and strive to lessen the burden on taxpayers. I don't know if FG can deliver on that given they will probably have to go in with Labour. I would love if there was a new PD type party founded something like they were back in 1987 when they had real drive and zeal for reducing the size of government and the burden on the taxpayer in Ireland.

I'm a disaffected FFer who actually believed them to be the party of low taxes and fiscal rectitude :eek:, but then McSharry and McCreevy were that but not the current lot. If I do vote in the next election it will be for FG but they need to move a bit further economically right to earn my vote in the long term.
 


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