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If Fianna Fáil ‘ruined’ this country, nobody admits that it also built it - Victoria White in the Examiner (25/10/12)


Rufty

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If Fianna Fáil ‘ruined’ this country, nobody admits that it also built it - Victoria White in the Examiner (25/10/12)

Very interesting reading today in a piece by Victoria White (see link below). Where as I will obviously be biased in favour of her article the main point it highlights though for me is this tribal nature some people (and it's particularly prevalent around these parts) bring to the political arena. This perception that there is one type of person who thinks one defined set of ideologies and that it's not possible to be a member of said party unless you fit this very rigid mold or stereotype. This phenomenon is not confined to members of political parties in their view of each other but is engaged in by the general public. It is, as pointed out in the article, perpetuated by politicos and journalists. In my opinion, this persecution, and it is taken to extremes in the US, of "everyone else but (insert political party/candidate of choice here) is simply evil and can do no right ever" is something that is greatly holding democracy back in our country.

Irish Examiner

Another point it seemingly asks is, if a party can go from good to bad, what is to stop it returning to good again? Most posters here would agree that Fianna Fáil under Lemass was progressive both economically and socially for the times and that, economically, the '87 minority or "Tallaght Strategy" government sowed the seed for two decades of relative prosperity. Why does the poor economic planning when, seemingly the writing was on the wall, of the 00's preclude a party from reforming as before especially when the public have accepted a reformed FG, Labour and ever increasingly it seems SF? Historical precedent says such a turnaround is indeed possible even after a Bailout and temporarily loss of partial sovereignty (UK Labour party after 1976).

Thoughts?
 
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RobertW

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You built nothing

Instead you ripped up tram/rail lines across Ireland and tore down beautiful Georgian buildings.

FF...a party of gobsh1tes.
 

rockofcashel

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The biggest problem FF has.. or at least most dyed in the wool FFers.. is that they still don't really understand the fact that they did anything wrong.. and when they do admit to any wrongdoing, they are convinced it was someone elses fault..

Lehmans

The Regulators

The EU/IMF

The Opposition (for not Opposing enough FFS)

Have you ever heard the fable of the Scorpion and the Frog... FF are like the scorpion, and if ever allowed back near the levers of power of the economy, they will f**k it up again (is three times in a generation not enough for ye ?)... because.. well, because that's what ye do
 

Bea C

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All you're going to meet is a barrage of abuse.
Nevermind the good points, there's gonna be a deluge of jokes on pi$$-ups, crying on telly, brown envelopes, racing tents, sartorial elegance and sympathising on the death of das fuhrer.
 

Marcos the black

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Can't think of the posters name but someone on this site has a signature that reads:

Fianna Fail: Keeping Ireland poor since 1927.

So true.
 

Eoin Coir

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She must be infected by time her hubby Eamon Ryan spent in time out with FF. This chic is too young to remember Dev's civil war, economic way,but she is young enough to recall the destruction of country by FF in 1977, and again by Bertie, McCreevy and Biffo in more recent years.

Shows the effect being in bed with maFFia can have, even though hubby went down with Titanic !
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Interesting that she ignores every achievement of the Free State Government (establishing democracy and the institutions of state, achieving energy independence with the Shannon Scheme) and the Inter-Party governments (declaring a Republic and re-shaping our interaction with the world).

It was these achievements which the Ahern/Cowen governments put at peril, not whether university professors got paid or not.

A jaundiced and lazy column.
 

southwestkerry

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Well for my two penny worth I never blamed FF for ruining the country while admitting they did a good job back in the day off building it up. To point out however regardless off who is to blame for the downturn things are indeed in quiet a bad spot now a days and despite every one laying the blame at the banks I don't.
As for the likes off the add on parties that ultimately always pop up the big two [FF,FG been the big two just in case some cat tell] all they can do is mutter under their breath while trying to sound important. The greens did it the PD's did it and now Lab are doing it. SF on the other hand I can not see making it on to the government's benches any year soon so I just dont bother with them in the lest.
 

ger12

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Very hard hitting piece.

"It’s the terrible unfairness I can’t stand. And the terrible snobbery. But the truth is that Fianna Fáil doesn’t matter very much.

What matters is that our political parties are clientelist. What matters is that our media are bigoted. What matters is that our political differences are tribal."
 

Mountaintop

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Not to give fodder to the tin foil hat brigade, but is this the same Victoria Ryan who's married to Eamon??...and daughter of a former controller of RTE?.

Edit: Sorry Eoin, missed your earlier post
 
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She's right that Fine Gael are no answer - clearly they're not. She's right that FF have played a huge role in creating the Ireland we know. She's wrong in asserting that they haven't destroyed the country - they really did (and not just once, e.g. Lynch's 1977 budget giveaway). What might be added is that none of the other parties offered much in the way of opposition to the policies that FF pursued which led to this ruination. The only opposition to Ahern's juggernaut came from a handful of economists and an old man at a tribunal.

She is quite right that clientilism, and attitudes prevalent in the population as a whole, as well as a rotten or servile media, are massive factors here. Fianna Fáil didn't emerge from a vacuum. They reflect the short-termist me-feinism of a large part of the population. FF deserve the blame they get - they were, after all, in power, and Fine Gael were not. But they are a symptom of a much deeper problem in Irish society, one which I believe will not change in my lifetime. The Ireland of today is as hopeless as it was in the 1950s in terms of the chances of fundamental change in the way business is done. The stultifying conservatism, the lack of vision, the exaltation of mediocrity, not to mention the nepotism, short-termism, clientilism, and rip-off culture, are not going to change. Fianna Fáil's success is a manifestation of this - their populism relies on pandering to these things, on lacking fundamental principles, on being what they belive people want them to be to serve their sectional interests.

Fianna Fáil will indeed come back. People have short memories. Even though it will take 15 years or more to recover from the disaster that has befallen Ireland, the people will forget everything if they believe that FF can pander to their particular sectional interest. Rinse, repeat.....
 

southwestkerry

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You built nothing

Instead you ripped up tram/rail lines across Ireland and tore down beautiful Georgian buildings.

FF...a party of gobsh1tes.
AAAA yes and all the others would never do anything likewise would they...
 

Eoin Coir

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Not to give fodder to the tin foil hat brigade, but is this the same Victoria Ryan who's married to Eamon??...and daughter of a former controller of RTE?.

Edit: Sorry Eoin, missed your earlier post
yes as i have said above married to Eamon Ryan,and daughter of Jack White (a Cork Protestant i think), or may spell his name as Whyte, formerly of RTE. I bet Eoghan Harris knows and probably despises him !!!!
 

toconn

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FF and the others built nothing ! They wasted the potential of independence , secularism and freedom by allowing Ireland to become a church dominated State from the beginning with responsibility for education , health and social care put into the hands of he Bishops. They allowed at least two maybe three generations to go to waste vis emigration ( look what some of these people achieved abroad ) and they allowed a lazy corrupt elite to develop which still holds back the country today. I could go on about lack of proper economic development etc etc but there will be a few others will do that.
 

Bea C

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Whether or what who did or did not (that sounds like something from Willie Wonka...).
The ultimate fact remains that it is a democracy.
And FF was voted in the democratic way.
 

libertarian-right

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AAAA yes and all the others would never do anything likewise would they...
"Ah shure the opposition would of done the exact same" That line is one FF'ers love to repeat.

FF sure did help build up a property bubble, inflation, quango spending, public spending waste etc.
 

Bea C

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Interesting that she ignores every achievement of the Free State Government (establishing democracy and the institutions of state, achieving energy independence with the Shannon Scheme) and the Inter-Party governments (declaring a Republic and re-shaping our interaction with the world).

It was these achievements which the Ahern/Cowen governments put at peril, not whether university professors got paid or not.

A jaundiced and lazy column.
Today is the ninetieth anniversary of the 1922 constitution.
 

Eoin Coir

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Whether or what who did or did not (that sounds like something from Willie Wonka...).
The ultimate fact remains that it is a democracy.
And FF was voted in the democratic way.
anything to do with taking rates off houses, motor tax, medical cards for over 70 millionaries ( Meehaul Martin); free travel, pumping up public service, benchmarking, where do I stop ?
 

Thac0man

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Thoughts?
Yes.

A - no one elected Fianna Fail to destroy our economy. Lots done, more to do? No thanks.

B - they built this country? Really? Living memory tells us that they foisted over control of many state and social institutions to the Catholic Church, and then divied what was left between themselves. Dev was a crook, so was Haughy, and every FF leader that came in between then and after was unworthy of high office. When people talk about FF leaders being 'good', they are judging them by a pretty low bar FF themselves set, in the wake of PR spin laid on thick by media interests aquired for the party in Devs time.

As an example of how FF have operated in recent time, the multi million Euro Tribunals were a tool for one wannbe FF leader (Bertie) to dislodge the influence of the last one (CJH). A internal tiff that the taxpayer picked the tab up for, and the results of which have been negligable. In recent times FF have given us Flynnisty, the Haughty dynasty and lets not forget Liam Lawlor. What the common theme? Bungs, bribes, theft, backhanders, brown envelopes, tax evasion, planning corruption, misappropreation of 'political donations'. Need I go on? Well yes, to add one more thing, none of them have served proper jail time. And even Sean Gallagher fell at the door of the Aras over his associaiton with FF, and the taint of corruption that goes with it. Thanks FF.
 
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