If Gaza is wrong, so is Aleppo ... but Where is the Outrage?

Truth.ie

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On the contrary, Assad keeps insisting on it, to the dismay of the Russians who want some sort of peace process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/w...iant Assad Vows to Retake Every Inch of Syria

Also, the other part of your post doesn't make sense. The Iranians would have a clear run to the Mediterranean and Hezbollah if the regime again controlled all the territory. At the moment it's much more difficult for them. Why on earth would they not want Asssad to retake the whole country?
Is the FSA even demanding partition? I never once heard them ask for it.
What other State would cede territory to Islamists bent on sectarian supremacy?
 


Truth.ie

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Obviously any "caliphates" or mini-enclaves run by international terrorists would be ruled out. I envisage something like Iraq - possibly a Kurdish region, a western Alawite region, and a Sunni "rest of Syria". There would be a loose national Presidency.

It may not be on everyone's agenda, but might well be everyone's 2nd choice when they realise that they cannot win everything they want. Re-making a viable entity out of Syria is not easy - and a perpetual war, or a genocide, is not a solution that can be tolerated.

The revolt against Assad started before he became a Russian client, and he was an Iranian client before he was a Russian one. If anyone created the problem he did, and you (and everyone) underestimate how much "strongman" rule is responsible for the mess of the Middle East - Saddam Hussein, Nasser, Mubarak, Gaddafi, Assad Snr and Jnr, the Shah, the Mullahs, the Saudi monarchy were and are failures in that none of them left or is capable of creating long term stability. The only successes maybe has been Jordan and the Gulf states.

Assad will fall or fail eventually - it is just that the sooner he is reined in the better. The sooner should be now.

And no thanks for the ritual cursing at Hillary Clinton at end. It's the last refuge of the not-very-bright left.
When you say a "sunni" State, what do you mean exactly?
75% of the Baath party and a similar percentage of the military is Sunni.
Are you referring to a Baathist State or a Muslim Brotherhood style State.

President Assad is strongest in Damascus which is 90% Sunni and also on the coast which is mixed.
Likewise the Kurds are not a monolithic bloc with some Kurds supporting independence, others Assad and a lot even joining ISIS..
 

Truth.ie

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Liberating Mosul is good news.
Liberating Aleppo is evil.

Thats the MSM narrative and people are drinking the Kool Aid.

If anyone can tell me the difference between Mosul and Aleppo, which are both going on as we write....I'd like to hear.
 

PeaceGoalie

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Many Kurds fight with the Syrian Army. The Kurdish federalists are involved in ethnic cleansing of Syro Arameans and Arabs. Like in Iraq, they are paid for puppets, not all that different from some elements in Ireland. They only arrived in Syria from Turkey some years after they collaborated in the Armenian and Assyrian genocides. They are nomads, originally from Iran. They have no friends but the mountains (Kurd -= mountain people) because no one can trust them and all use them. These ethnic cleansers will lose.

The Syrian Army and its allies have killed in excess of 70,000 foreign jihadists. Why did they not do jihad in their own countries, Ireland included? Why go to a secular country?

Ireland has a growing Muslim population, 99% of whom are Sunni. Now, if 10% of the world's Muslims are Shia, how come we have so few? The answer is because the Sunnis are so heavily subsidised. This includes the lunatics in the Clonskeagh and South Circular Road mosques.

But which politicians and journalists and other opinion formers are on the take to ease the road for them?
 

Smidgin

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Ireland has a growing Muslim population, 99% of whom are Sunni. Now, if 10% of the world's Muslims are Shia, how come we have so few? The answer is because the Sunnis are so heavily subsidised. This includes the lunatics in the Clonskeagh and South Circular Road mosques.

But which politicians and journalists and other opinion formers are on the take to ease the road for them?
I understand the dangers of Wahhabism and of the Saudi funding of mosques which then become hostages to a fundamentalist sect of Islam. Do you have information on the Clonskeagh and South Circular Road mosques which identify them as of the lunatic strain you repeat?.
 

former wesleyan

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I understand the dangers of Wahhabism and of the Saudi funding of mosques which then become hostages to a fundamentalist sect of Islam. Do you have information on the Clonskeagh and South Circular Road mosques which identify them as of the lunatic strain you repeat?.
IRELAND’S LARGEST Sunni mosque has tried to counter the perception, outlined in a US diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks, that it is dominated by groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland (ICCI), in Clonskeagh, Dublin, features heavily in a July 2006 memo written by then US ambassador James Kenny to then secretary of state Condoleezza Rice and copied to other US embassies in Europe and the Middle East.

The cable details the embassy’s impressions of the dynamics shaping Islam in Ireland. It pays particular attention to the Clonskeagh centre, including its role as headquarters of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, a body headed by the controversial Muslim Brotherhood-linked cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi.
[..]
The cable said “one of the most pro-democracy and pro-USG policy Islamic voices in Ireland” was that of Ali al-Saleh, imam at the Shia mosque in Milltown, Dublin. It claimed the embassy had been helping him to gain a higher profile, including in the media.
Reached by phone in Iran, where he is travelling on pilgrimage, Dr al-Saleh said he did not take issue with the cable’s portrayal of him.
[..]
Yahya al-Hussein, imam at Dublins South Circular Road mosque – which the memo alleged was viewed as an “extremist” mosque – could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The Bari family, described as the “sponsors” of Blackpitts mosque in Dublin – which the cable claimed was a “suspected . . . gathering place for some radical elements” – could not be reached either.


The Brotherhood is way beyond " Saudi funding " and Wahhabism. The Clonskeagh is funded by the ruling family of Dubai
 

PeaceGoalie

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I understand the dangers of Wahhabism and of the Saudi funding of mosques which then become hostages to a fundamentalist sect of Islam. Do you have information on the Clonskeagh and South Circular Road mosques which identify them as of the lunatic strain you repeat?.
I discussed them with very senior immigrant "blow ins" today, They are scared sh&tless of them and they are suffering huge intimidation. Anything those two mosques submit to authority here is rubber stamped. They can bring extremist recruiters in and that is fine. The Shias and other minorities are treated like sh%t in Ireland. Shias are 10% of Muslims globally. In Ireland they are less than 1%. Who is bought off? Sinn Fein?
Why do Sinn Fein and FF's Mark Daly play footsie with them? I don't know but someone is. Why not just ignore the Halawa cell like they ignore RIRA/CIRA etc prisoners? Are they being given brown envelopes. access, what?

Who is picking out ISIS type groups for RTE interviews? Why does the Clonskeagh mosque get such an easy media ride? Some power brokers know what is up and ignore them but they are promoted and Irish Canutes cannot stop the CIA tide.
The financiers are well know. Think the horse industry etc.
These are big boys' games with bog boys' rules.
 

JohnD66

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Obviously any "caliphates" or mini-enclaves run by international terrorists would be ruled out. I envisage something like Iraq - possibly a Kurdish region, a western Alawite region, and a Sunni "rest of Syria". There would be a loose national Presidency.

It may not be on everyone's agenda, but might well be everyone's 2nd choice when they realise that they cannot win everything they want. Re-making a viable entity out of Syria is not easy - and a perpetual war, or a genocide, is not a solution that can be tolerated.

The revolt against Assad started before he became a Russian client, and he was an Iranian client before he was a Russian one. If anyone created the problem he did, and you (and everyone) underestimate how much "strongman" rule is responsible for the mess of the Middle East - Saddam Hussein, Nasser, Mubarak, Gaddafi, Assad Snr and Jnr, the Shah, the Mullahs, the Saudi monarchy were and are failures in that none of them left or is capable of creating long term stability. The only successes maybe has been Jordan and the Gulf states.

Assad will fall or fail eventually - it is just that the sooner he is reined in the better. The sooner should be now.

And no thanks for the ritual cursing at Hillary Clinton at end. It's the last refuge of the not-very-bright left.
Ok, let's just start with the factual stuff. Syria has been a Soviet client since the 1960s, and since then has been a military ally of the USSR and then Russia, who have had a naval base at Tartus since 1971. Yes, also an Iranian ally. US policy is predicating on separating it from both of those powers. Including going to the lengths of providing massive military aid to extreme Islamist rebels. Hilary Clinton wants to escalate this. I feel justified in calling this an insane policy, even from the point of view of US interests.

Regarding partition. No party in Syria wants this. Nor would it be possible to create an Allawite Sunni, Shia Christian, Kurdish or Druze states without massive ethnic cleansing. In any case, Assad controls the major Sunni centres of population, in Damascus, Homs, Hama and most of Aleppo. Is he supposed to just hand them over to some Sunni state?

Who would run this Sunni state, even if it were possible? No extremists you say. Well that rules out the major military forces on the rebel side - Nusra, Ahrar al Sham, Jund al Aqusa, Jaysh al Islam etc and you are left with a collection of disunited local militias with no real political programme, who have been kept alive all these years of war by foreign sponsorship.

If it were a case of Baathist Syria being reformed into a democracy, I would absolutely support. A federal Syria with rights for the Kurds, I would support. But the choice right now is Baathist state or anarchy, or a pocket of statelets run by extremists and foreign proxies. None of whom have demonstrated any ability to run a state anyway (except the Kurds, see below).

Many Kurds fight with the Syrian Army. The Kurdish federalists are involved in ethnic cleansing of Syro Arameans and Arabs. Like in Iraq, they are paid for puppets, not all that different from some elements in Ireland. They only arrived in Syria from Turkey some years after they collaborated in the Armenian and Assyrian genocides. They are nomads, originally from Iran. They have no friends but the mountains (Kurd -= mountain people) because no one can trust them and all use them. These ethnic cleansers will lose.
I don't know where to start with that load of cr@p, except that you have managed to put together rebel and regime propaganda with a bit of local ethnic hatred too. The Syrian Kurds in the form of the PYD and YPG militia are the only group in Syria to seriously implement a form of democratic rule with some respect for human rights in the areas they control . The charges of ethnic cleansing are base propaganda. Especially in the case of the Assyrians, who have a militia fighting under Kurdish command - the Syriac Military Council or MFS.
 
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PeaceGoalie

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I don't know where to start with that load of cr@p, except that you have managed to put together rebel and regime propaganda with a bit of local ethnic hatred too. The Syrian Kurds in the form of the PYD and YPG militia are the only group in Syria to seriously implement a form of democratic rule with some respect for human rights in the areas they control . The charges of ethnic cleansing are base propaganda. Especially in the case of the Assyrians, who have a militia fighting under Kurdish command - the Syriac Military Council or MFS.
Ethnic hatred? The Kurds are past masters of that. Armenian and Assyrian genocides to begin. These Iranian nomads are claiming Assyrian history as their own ,when they are not destroying it. The Kurds are an Israeli/US Trojan horse. Good for corruption and genocide but little else.

The Kurds, with their US backers, are busily ethnically cleansing parts of Northern Syria. They are a minority and intruders as Russia has explained to them. The Syriac Churches are HQ'd in Damascus btw
 

JohnD66

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Ethnic hatred? The Kurds are past masters of that. Armenian and Assyrian genocides to begin. These Iranian nomads are claiming Assyrian history as their own ,when they are not destroying it. The Kurds are an Israeli/US Trojan horse. Good for corruption and genocide but little else.

The Kurds, with their US backers, are busily ethnically cleansing parts of Northern Syria. They are a minority and intruders as Russia has explained to them. The Syriac Churches are HQ'd in Damascus btw
Yep, ignore list for you so.
 

McDave

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Obviously any "caliphates" or mini-enclaves run by international terrorists would be ruled out. I envisage something like Iraq - possibly a Kurdish region, a western Alawite region, and a Sunni "rest of Syria". There would be a loose national Presidency.

It may not be on everyone's agenda, but might well be everyone's 2nd choice when they realise that they cannot win everything they want. Re-making a viable entity out of Syria is not easy - and a perpetual war, or a genocide, is not a solution that can be tolerated.

The revolt against Assad started before he became a Russian client, and he was an Iranian client before he was a Russian one. If anyone created the problem he did, and you (and everyone) underestimate how much "strongman" rule is responsible for the mess of the Middle East - Saddam Hussein, Nasser, Mubarak, Gaddafi, Assad Snr and Jnr, the Shah, the Mullahs, the Saudi monarchy were and are failures in that none of them left or is capable of creating long term stability. The only successes maybe has been Jordan and the Gulf states.

Assad will fall or fail eventually - it is just that the sooner he is reined in the better. The sooner should be now.

And no thanks for the ritual cursing at Hillary Clinton at end. It's the last refuge of the not-very-bright left.
Syria was forced under Russia's influence a long time ago. Despite instabilities in the region it had maintained relative order. Assad could have possibly softened the regime in the mid-noughties, but seeing what's happened elsewhere that wouldn't have prevented 'regime change' efforts, to which Syria would have been more vulnerable had it 'liberalised'.

Tha position of the Kurds should be addressed. But how about the West tackling the Kurdish situation in Turkey first. What's good for the goose...

On 'perpetual war' how about putting manners on land grabbing and ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories.

The more I read your posts, the more I see you as essentially a pro-US interventionist.
 

ireallyshouldknowbetter

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"The captive (a gay) is seen being held over the edge of a partially built high rise building in Aleppo.....down below is a crowd including young children watching the savage spectable....the man is then pushed off....his crumpled body is then stoned by the baying mob below."

Gay man thrown off building in ISIS execution in Aleppo in Syria | Daily Star

There's your "civilians" in Eastern Aleppo right there.
Astonishingly dishonest, even by your standards.

There is no ISIS presence whatsoever in Eastern Aleppo, and the reason for that is because the Syrian rebel factions who hold Eastern Aleppo expelled ISIS in a bitter campaign which cost at least 1,000 lives on the rebel side.
 

PeaceGoalie

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Astonishingly dishonest, even by your standards.

There is no ISIS presence whatsoever in Eastern Aleppo, and the reason for that is because the Syrian rebel factions who hold Eastern Aleppo expelled ISIS in a bitter campaign which cost at least 1,000 lives on the rebel side.
The moderates have done everything ISIS do: throw gays off buildings, beheadings etc. They have even boasted they are worse than ISIS. They have executed entire families for having a son in the Syrian Army. Their war crimes in Kasab and Latakia were amongst the very worst. ISIS do exist in rural Aleppo but my point is the only difference there is between these criminal gangs is one of semantics disseminated by the media outlets of the US, Saudi and Qatar and picked up by parrots like your good self.
 

PeaceGoalie

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Syria was forced under Russia's influence a long time ago. Despite instabilities in the region it had maintained relative order. Assad could have possibly softened the regime in the mid-noughties, but seeing what's happened elsewhere that wouldn't have prevented 'regime change' efforts, to which Syria would have been more vulnerable had it 'liberalised'.

Tha position of the Kurds should be addressed. But how about the West tackling the Kurdish situation in Turkey first. What's good for the goose...

On 'perpetual war' how about putting manners on land grabbing and ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories.

The more I read your posts, the more I see you as essentially a pro-US interventionist.
Good points. But many posters,like JohnD66, are just shills for Western agendas. Russia spelt out where the Kurds can fit in but Israel and the USA have them as a major fifth column in Iraq and against Iran (from where these nomads originate) as well as Turkey, from where most of these nomads fled into the Assyrian parts of Syria they are trying to annex in the 1930s.
 

ireallyshouldknowbetter

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The moderates have done everything ISIS do: throw gays off buildings, beheadings etc. They have even boasted they are worse than ISIS. They have executed entire families for having a son in the Syrian Army. Their war crimes in Kasab and Latakia were amongst the very worst. ISIS do exist in rural Aleppo but my point is the only difference there is between these criminal gangs is one of semantics disseminated by the media outlets of the US, Saudi and Qatar and picked up by parrots like your good self.
Truth.ie, you accidentally posted this response from your sock's account.

You are incorrect to state that other rebels throw gays off buildings. Nobody has "boasted that they are worse than ISIS". The fact is that in the Assad statelet and in most opposition areas, homosexuality is a crime, and people are locked up for it. ISIS is the only party which throws gay people from buildings.

Incidentally, all sides in the conflict - including the Assad side - have carried out beheadings.

ISIS may exist in rural Aleppo, but you stated that they were in Eastern Aleppo city, which they are not.
 

Truth.ie

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I posted a link with photographic evidence of civilians in eastern Aleppo stoning a gay after being thrown from a building.
When it happened is irrelevant and Knownothing is dancing on a pin.

I asked you to explain the moral difference between the assault on Mosul and the assault on Aleppo and you went flatline. Why isnt the media using the same buzzwords and emotional language when reporting from Mosul ....where more civilians are holed up.
 


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