• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vote?


kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint. The political pundits keep saying that it is an issue on the doorsteps saying that urban TD's in particular say it is one of the main issues mentioned. However, no party is espousing an immigration control agenda, and with the exception of Dublin North where there is an ICP candidate how are we to vote?

Enda Kenny's call for a 'debate' is looking less like what it says on the tin but rather more a like an attempt to molly coddle and soft soothe us into mass immigration. The only person to my mind with credibility on this issue is Pat Rabbitte with his comments last year on Eastern European immigration when there was no political advantage at that time in making those statements. To my mind I feel those comments reflected Pat's personal view and that he was very genuine and sincere in expressing them at that time unlike I am sure the Johnny come latelys we will hear between now and election day. I do believe that Pat Rabbitte was very genuine and sincere in the views he expressed which would coincide with my own.

However, there is a but! My main reservation is whether he can carry the rest of the Labour Party with him on immigration, namely as I mentioned on another thread the 'bleeding heart' (or 'champagne socialist' if you prefer) wing of the party. You know, that element of the Labour Party that waits to read what Madam says in an Irish Times editorial on any issue before adopting its own position and believes that criminals are just misunderstood victims of societys ills etc etc. As I remember it the 'bleeding hearts' in the Labour Party came out at that time against Pat's statements and he does seem to have backed off them!

So, I am asking those people on this site who have consistently commented on immigration control just how should we vote. And if we could develop a concensus maybe we could vote en bloc?

Over to you!
 

cain1798

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
418
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

kerrynorth said:
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint.
What viewpoint? Immigration is a priority issue for you, and you're anti-immigration. But what about those people for whom immigration is a priority issue, but who are not anti-immigration. Those people who want to see a progressive, human rights based approach to immigration. People like my friend who is engaged to a chap from Chile who has been having huge difficulties with visas and work permits.

You're automatically assuming that every person for whom immigration is a big issue is anti-immigration. That's not the case.
 

The Trinity Politick

Active member
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
248
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

kerrynorth said:
Enda Kenny's call for a 'debate' is looking less like what it says on the tin but rather more a like an attempt to molly coddle and soft soothe us into mass immigration.
Fine Gael would set up a dedicated Ministry for Immigrant/Immigration Affairs in government to solely deal with the issues regarding immigration, permits, exploitation, illegals etc etc. You need dedicated work on this.

Seems like an obvious moe to make in this current age. Its not unheard of to create new ministries. Would be a bit awkward today with that "Ministry for Posts and Telegraphs"
 

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,992
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
Then you should vote PD because of McDowell's citizenship-referendum and speeding up of deportations - even if we have a long way to go to fully address loopholes and remove those here illegally from the country. Labour and the Greens and SF all opposed that referendum remember.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
I'm voting for Leo Varadkar (FG) in Dublin West because he has made it an election issue and I like most of what he is saying - namely the Management of Immigration and 'Integration not Multi-Culturalism'.
 

factual

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,761
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

Immigration is one of my issues and I support Sinn Féin's approach that opposes restrictions on intra-EU migration.
 

wizzard

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
27
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

kerrynorth said:
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint. The political pundits keep saying that it is an issue on the doorsteps saying that urban TD's in particular say it is one of the main issues mentioned. However, no party is espousing an immigration control agenda, and with the exception of Dublin North where there is an ICP candidate how are we to vote?

Enda Kenny's call for a 'debate' is looking less like what it says on the tin but rather more a like an attempt to molly coddle and soft soothe us into mass immigration. The only person to my mind with credibility on this issue is Pat Rabbitte with his comments last year on Eastern European immigration when there was no political advantage at that time in making those statements. To my mind I feel those comments reflected Pat's personal view and that he was very genuine and sincere in expressing them at that time unlike I am sure the Johnny come latelys we will hear between now and election day. I do believe that Pat Rabbitte was very genuine and sincere in the views he expressed which would coincide with my own.

However, there is a but! My main reservation is whether he can carry the rest of the Labour Party with him on immigration, namely as I mentioned on another thread the 'bleeding heart' (or 'champagne socialist' if you prefer) wing of the party. You know, that element of the Labour Party that waits to read what Madam says in an Irish Times editorial on any issue before adopting its own position and believes that criminals are just misunderstood victims of societys ills etc etc. As I remember it the 'bleeding hearts' in the Labour Party came out at that time against Pat's statements and he does seem to have backed off them!

So, I am asking those people on this site who have consistently commented on immigration control just how should we vote. And if we could develop a concensus maybe we could vote en bloc?

Over to you!
if FG go in with a Labour and even a Green coalition the 'opposition' will be as bad as the current mob.
The reality is that you just can't make immigration control your priority without spoiling.
 

Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,885
In my constituency i'll be dropping a neatly folded spoilt vote in the ballot box. If everyone concerned at over immigration did the same that would be telling. Meanwhile hoping for a better future :lol:

Btw good thread idea KN!
 

White Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,064
Catalpa said:
'Integration not Multi-Culturalism'.
That is the key. Multi-culturalism is a failed experiament. The people who will suffer must from an open door policy are the working classes. At least Fine Gael and Labour and making a stand on this issue.
 

liberal logic

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
2
I think we need to promote greater integration, allowing all the people who come here to live good lives enjoying prosperity, liberty and sexlove.
 

Orourke

New member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1
Lets have a referendum.

It seems to me, that up until now, the ordinary Irish citizenry of this country have never been allowed any say whatsoever on the issue of mass immigration into their midst. Although some newspaper surveys in the past, I seem to recall, indicated a preference for stricter controls.

The Government have thus been allowed to decide the immigration agenda, and in their usual inept ways have permitted the demographics of this country to be altered on a scale similar to an invasion, albeit a non-violent one.

It is also quite apparent, that the orchestrated dictates of mass immigrationists are being imposed, as surely as by dictatorship, without any consideration whatever as to what the electorate themselves might want or even think, accompanied with a barrage of state-sponsored propaganda.

PC seems to have replaced religion, but it too seems to have thrown-up about the same number of self-deluded zealots and opportunists as did ever the church.

Surely it is well past the time when the silent majority of this country had their say on this issue?

Let’s have a referendum, preferably at the time of the next election!

The electorate could possibly be asked whether they were accepting of, or indeed opposed to, continued levels of immigration and asylum abuse as has already been experienced over the past 5 years.

Outside the sheer arrogance of this Govt., there can be no valid reasons as to why this particular issue has been allowed up until now, to become such a one-sided debate. One in which immigration protagonists all too frequently feel encouraged to bully and browbeat any "non-believers".

The sooner we have such referendum the better!
But then again, perhaps if the results were not to Bertie's liking he might be inclined to run a series of them until he got the answer that would suit him best!
 

liberal logic

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
2
Orourke said:
PC seems to have replaced religion, but it too seems to have thrown-up about the same number of self-deluded zealots and opportunists as did ever the church.
No i don't think anyone has ever done any of the things for PC comparable to the crimes done for religion. I resent the PC attack on free sexlove though.
 

owenfeehan

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
54
Twin Towers said:
In my constituency i'll be dropping a neatly folded spoilt vote in the ballot box. If everyone concerned at over immigration did The same that would be telling. Meanwhile hoping for a better future :lol:
Btw good thread idea KN!
I can think of no greater way than being ignored than not exercising your vote.

Okay, maybe it's marginally better than just not going to the polling station, but not much.

But seeing as I disagree with ye guys on "immigration-control", hey, you not voting only helps my cause (although probably not Irish democracy)!
 

aisling2323

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
11
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

cain1798 said:
kerrynorth said:
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint.
What viewpoint? Immigration is a priority issue for you, and you're anti-immigration. But what about those people for whom immigration is a priority issue, but who are not anti-immigration. Those people who want to see a progressive, human rights based approach to immigration. People like my friend who is engaged to a chap from Chile who has been having huge difficulties with visas and work permits.

You're automatically assuming that every person for whom immigration is a big issue is anti-immigration. That's not the case.

i agree. there are some fantastic people in the country from abroad, they bring us their culture, their ideas, their spirit. Only a rascist would say that immigration was his/her number one election issue - what have these people done only come here looking for a job - what would you do if there were few opportunities in ireland and you had a family to feed?
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

aisling2323 said:
cain1798 said:
kerrynorth said:
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint.
What viewpoint? Immigration is a priority issue for you, and you're anti-immigration. But what about those people for whom immigration is a priority issue, but who are not anti-immigration. Those people who want to see a progressive, human rights based approach to immigration. People like my friend who is engaged to a chap from Chile who has been having huge difficulties with visas and work permits.

You're automatically assuming that every person for whom immigration is a big issue is anti-immigration. That's not the case.

i agree. there are some fantastic people in the country from abroad, they bring us their culture, their ideas, their spirit. Only a rascist would say that immigration was his/her number one election issue - what have these people done only come here looking for a job - what would you do if there were few opportunities in ireland and you had a family to feed?


Only a rascist would say that immigration was his/her number one election issue


:roll:
 

Norfolk Enchants

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
100
Re: If immigration is your priority issue: how should you vo

cain1798 said:
kerrynorth said:
I think this is a reasonable question to ask because if immigration issues are your biggest issue for the forthcoming election there is presently no party espousing your viewpoint.
What viewpoint? Immigration is a priority issue for you, and you're anti-immigration. But what about those people for whom immigration is a priority issue, but who are not anti-immigration. Those people who want to see a progressive, human rights based approach to immigration. People like my friend who is engaged to a chap from Chile who has been having huge difficulties with visas and work permits.

You're automatically assuming that every person for whom immigration is a big issue is anti-immigration. That's not the case.
Excelllent point Cain and people with this reasonable view should not vote FF FG or PD but then again, people with a reasonable view probably won't anyway.
 

sackville

Member
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
85
Orourke said:
Lets have a referendum.

It seems to me, that up until now, the ordinary Irish citizenry of this country have never been allowed any say whatsoever on the issue of mass immigration into their midst. Although some newspaper surveys in the past, I seem to recall, indicated a preference for stricter controls.

The Government have thus been allowed to decide the immigration agenda, and in their usual inept ways have permitted the demographics of this country to be altered on a scale similar to an invasion, albeit a non-violent one.

It is also quite apparent, that the orchestrated dictates of mass immigrationists are being imposed, as surely as by dictatorship, without any consideration whatever as to what the electorate themselves might want or even think, accompanied with a barrage of state-sponsored propaganda.

PC seems to have replaced religion, but it too seems to have thrown-up about the same number of self-deluded zealots and opportunists as did ever the church.

Surely it is well past the time when the silent majority of this country had their say on this issue?

Let’s have a referendum, preferably at the time of the next election!

The electorate could possibly be asked whether they were accepting of, or indeed opposed to, continued levels of immigration and asylum abuse as has already been experienced over the past 5 years.

Outside the sheer arrogance of this Govt., there can be no valid reasons as to why this particular issue has been allowed up until now, to become such a one-sided debate. One in which immigration protagonists all too frequently feel encouraged to bully and browbeat any "non-believers".

The sooner we have such referendum the better!
But then again, perhaps if the results were not to Bertie's liking he might be inclined to run a series of them until he got the answer that would suit him best!
fully agree, the parliamentary parties have arrogantly conspired against the Will of the People to turn us into ade facto single party state (complete with compliant media) on this issue.
The real message in all of this mess is the need for much greater direct democracy.
 

Richie Nixon

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
34
With the exception of the Socialist Party, The People Before Profit Alliance, and the WSM, all Parties have sensible views on immigration. All call for management. It has not gone nearly as extreme as Sarkozy and Le Pen in France.
 

Peter

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
3
Website
www.ireland.ie
The difference between Michael McDowell and Enda Kenny on immigration: Michael McDowell has brought the asylum numbers to its lowest level in 10 years. Wonder if Enda Kenny would be able to match that?
 

smiffy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,279
Website
cedarlounge.wordpress.com
Orourke said:
Lets have a referendum.

It seems to me, that up until now, the ordinary Irish citizenry of this country have never been allowed any say whatsoever on the issue of mass immigration into their midst. Although some newspaper surveys in the past, I seem to recall, indicated a preference for stricter controls.

The Government have thus been allowed to decide the immigration agenda, and in their usual inept ways have permitted the demographics of this country to be altered on a scale similar to an invasion, albeit a non-violent one.
The Government which, of course, is appointed by God with no reference to the wishes of the people.

Here's an idea: if you don't like the policy of the government, why not just vote for another one? Or, if you know of no one standing who represents your views, run for election yourself?

One other point that the 'referendum-mongers' seem to forget is that for a referendum to be held, a Bill must be passed by the Oireachtas. So, you can't bypass parliamentary democracy quite as easily as you'd like. Sorry.
 
Top