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If Ireland ever had a referendum of rejoining the United Kingdom....

Would you accept a United Ireland as part of a United Kingdom?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • No

    Votes: 49 81.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • A united Ireland under European rule.

    Votes: 4 6.7%

  • Total voters
    60

elbart

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
92
Imagine this scenario, THe United Kingdom government offer Ireland a chance to have reunification under 1 condition, like Scotland and Wales, Ireland would be able to exist as a separate entity, make home rules but be a full member of the United Kingdom.

Would that be a price worth paying to have our country whole again?

How would Republicans among us react if a majority voted for this and accepted a United Ireland as part of a United Kingdom?
 


locke

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,178
The United Kingdom as a concept can never work for the Celtic Nations.

Even as a federal structure of 4 equal nations, England would be too dominant economically and its interests would always come out on top.

I can't think of one successful federal state where a single component has more than 50% of the population and economy, nevermind the 80% that England would have.
 

elbart

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
92
My grandparents and their generation would turn in their graves. The English infestation was an illegal occupation which continues to this day through the plantations.
English? British.

Sick of this idea that it was the English, the United Kingdom was a collective of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales.
 

elbart

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
92
The United Kingdom as a concept can never work for the Celtic Nations.

Even as a federal structure of 4 equal nations, England would be too dominant economically and its interests would always come out on top.

I can't think of one successful federal state where a single component has more than 50% of the population and economy, nevermind the 80% that England would have.
Nonsense, Scotland runs its own affairs, has its own laws and is only joined to the UK for federal issues, such as military, monetary etc. exactly the same way Ireland is currently tied to the EU.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,648
Twitter
No
These sort of questions always remind me of James Joyce's response when asked to describe the Irish character. He opted for the 'crack'd looking glass of a servant'.

I think he was referring to the sort of people who would vote for an external ruler.
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,494
Nonsense, Scotland runs its own affairs, has its own laws and is only joined to the UK for federal issues, such as military, monetary etc. exactly the same way Ireland is currently tied to the EU.
First, Ireland has a veto over many areas within the competence of the EU. Scotland has no veto over issues that are reserved the Westminster. Their influence is limited to the roughly 7.5% of UK MPs that are elected in Scotland.

Second, the UK lacks a written constitution and there is no guarantee whatsoever that a future Parliament would not alter the devolution settlements. Parliament remains sovereign and it is only a constitutional convention that it does not operate in devolved areas or so as to alter devolved competence without consent. The withdrawal from the EU, where a number of legislative changes have affected devolved competence without Scottish consent is a recent example of this.

Third, Ireland's rightful focus should be on supporting the rights of Irish people in Northern Ireland through the Good Friday Agreement rights and structures. If enough people in Northern Ireland want unity, then so be it. Ireland should consider what it needs to do constitutionally to make that happen if and when the people of both NI and ROI want it to happen. But it should not contort its own constitutional status to bring that unity about.
 

elbart

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
92
First, Ireland has a veto over many areas within the competence of the EU. Scotland has no veto over issues that are reserved the Westminster. Their influence is limited to the roughly 7.5% of UK MPs that are elected in Scotland.

Second, the UK lacks a written constitution and there is no guarantee whatsoever that a future Parliament would not alter the devolution settlements. Parliament remains sovereign and it is only a constitutional convention that it does not operate in devolved areas or so as to alter devolved competence without consent. The withdrawal from the EU, where a number of legislative changes have affected devolved competence without Scottish consent is a recent example of this.

Third, Ireland's rightful focus should be on supporting the rights of Irish people in Northern Ireland through the Good Friday Agreement rights and structures. If enough people in Northern Ireland want unity, then so be it. Ireland should consider what it needs to do constitutionally to make that happen if and when the people of both NI and ROI want it to happen. But it should not contort its own constitutional status to bring that unity about.
Scotlands Veto is within the British Veto on many things.

On home affairs Scotland runs itself, on national affairs he UK runs affairs on behalf of the 4 nations.

In Ireland's case, our Vetos only exist as long as the EU decides to allow them to exist, as the EU pushed for further integration where do you ultimately think that will leave us?
 

Alphonse

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Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
966
It would mean accepting monarchism which I think would be to much of a culture shock a this stage. The UK is an odd and complex political entity it is much more straight forward to be simply a democratic republic.
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,494
Scotlands Veto is within the British Veto on many things.
You (deliberately?) miss the point.

You compared Scotland's place within the UK to Ireland's place within the EU - because both have competence for a range of issues, but cede competence for a range of other issues to another body (Westminster and Brussels respectively).

The point I am making that that Scotland does not have a veto over reserved matters in Westminster. If Westminster chooses a particular immigration policy, Scotland has no ability to veto that. The 7.5% of UK MPs from Scotland can vote against it. But Scotland cannot veto it.

By contrast, within the EU, Ireland has a veto over a range of areas within EU competence.

On home affairs Scotland runs itself, on national affairs he UK runs affairs on behalf of the 4 nations.
And Parliament retains the absolute right to determine what is and is not a reserved or devolved matter.

In Ireland's case, our Vetos only exist as long as the EU decides to allow them to exist, as the EU pushed for further integration where do you ultimately think that will leave us?
That's not true. Changing the system of vetos requires treaty change. And guess what? We'd have a veto over that.
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,613
Dont
Imagine this scenario, THe United Kingdom government offer Ireland a chance to have reunification under 1 condition, like Scotland and Wales, Ireland would be able to exist as a separate entity, make home rules but be a full member of the United Kingdom.

Would that be a price worth paying to have our country whole again?

How would Republicans among us react if a majority voted for this and accepted a United Ireland as part of a United Kingdom?
Donโ€™t be such a silly billy boy.:sleep:
 

Emily Davison

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
30,666
Imagine this scenario, THe United Kingdom government offer Ireland a chance to have reunification under 1 condition, like Scotland and Wales, Ireland would be able to exist as a separate entity, make home rules but be a full member of the United Kingdom.

Would that be a price worth paying to have our country whole again?

How would Republicans among us react if a majority voted for this and accepted a United Ireland as part of a United Kingdom?
Our country? From a poster with a Union Jack !
 

Emily Davison

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
30,666
Dont


Donโ€™t be such a silly billy boy.:sleep:
And just look at his thread title:

If Ireland ever had a referendum of rejoining the United Kingdom.....

Like we had a choice the first time around.
 

Emily Davison

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
30,666
One can be a nationalist without wanting to be a Republican surely?

Not everyone in Ireland voted for us to be a Republic.
What kind of nationalist would that be then?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,680
I suppose people with time on their hands come up with questions like this, totally daft idea.
 

Watcher2

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Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
34,431
This is really another United Ireland thread in fairness. Why in Gods name would we want a United Ireland? They have not exactly covered themselves in glory up there. They cant even rule themselves. Why would we want that kind of infection? Christ, our muppets are bad enough without any of the northern bolloxology taking hold of them too.
 

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