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If its good enough for Lloyds, is it too good for the little people?


DuineEile

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Aug 29, 2010
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Lloyds considering selling some of its Irish property loan portfolio at a discount. Seems like figures between 10% and 25% of book value are mooted.

Lloyds mulls sale of

But of course some muppets here think Irish people caught up in this nightmare should pay full value for their lifetime and that of their kids, and live in penury until they die just to pay back unsustainable mortgages?

Go figure.



D
 

happytuesdays

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That is sort of the opposite of what you want. They are going to take the loss themselves.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Jun 8, 2007
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Lloyds considering sellingsome of its Irish property loan portfolio at a discount. Seems like figures between 10% and 25% of book value are mooted.

Lloyds mulls sale of

But of course some muppets here think Irish people caught up in this nightmare should pay full value for their lifetime and that of their kids, and live in penury until they die just to pay back unsustainable mortgages?

Go figure.

D
Our mortgages have already been sold and chopped up as it stands in terms of securities and other weapons of mass delusion.

At least what Lloyds is doing is up front and transparent.

You might pay your small mortgage because you have the means and are morally and legally bound to do so.
I might not be able to do so because of pay cuts. Moral and legal still apply, but you can't get blood from a stone.
Mick the cheat may be faking poverty to get out of his mortgage.

Collectively, this loan book is impaired, so it is worth less, so it has to be sold at a discount. there is nothing immoral in what Llyods are doing AT THIS POINT

The immorality took place when they inflated a market through lending to me. Mick is just a shyster
 

Sync

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Um. Your logic is bizarre. Could you explain it? Lloyds will take a loss on their mortgages by selling them, but will still be obliged to pay back their own debts.
 

dizillusioned

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If ... and I say if, you know that your mortgage is part of this why is it not possible for you to purchase that mortgage at the discount rate?....

I know I am not a financial genius, but it would seem that financial institutions have the ability to sell your debt without informing you.
 

meriwether

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Dec 1, 2004
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If ... and I say if, you know that your mortgage is part of this why is it not possible for you to purchase that mortgage at the discount rate?....
I know I am not a financial genius, but it would seem that financial institutions have the ability to sell your debt without informing you.
Because this isn't Fantasy Island?
 

Ribeye

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Um. Your logic is bizarre. Could you explain it? Lloyds will take a loss on their mortgages by selling them, but will still be obliged to pay back their own debts.
Em, the UK taxpayers are repaying LBG's debts,
 

Howya

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Feb 29, 2012
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1,690
Lloyds considering selling some of its Irish property loan portfolio at a discount. Seems like figures between 10% and 25% of book value are mooted.

Lloyds mulls sale of

But of course some muppets here think Irish people caught up in this nightmare should pay full value for their lifetime and that of their kids, and live in penury until they die just to pay back unsustainable mortgages?

Go figure.



D
Whoever buys the loan portfolio will be looking to make a profit by chasing the borrowers to repay the original loan amount. In some cases they will be successful and in others not so. The point you make is that the new loan owner recognizes this in the price they pay and will be willing to cut deals with the borrowers (and no-one will be shouting about moral hazard).
 

Picasso Republic

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If ... and I say if, you know that your mortgage is part of this why is it not possible for you to purchase that mortgage at the discount rate?....

I know I am not a financial genius, but it would seem that financial institutions have the ability to sell your debt without informing you.
Its not possible to cherrypick only the good from a bundled asset, thes loan book assets are sold "as seen" similar to (and forgive my analogy) those Warehouse and Lock-Up reposessions one sees on TV from the USA - the purchaser knows there is a mixture of good and bad and plays the odds.
 

dizillusioned

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Its not possible to cherrypick only the good from a bundled asset, thes loan book assets are sold "as seen" similar to (and forgive my analogy) those Warehouse and Lock-Up reposessions one sees on TV from the USA - the purchaser knows there is a mixture of good and bad and plays the odds.
Thanks PR very helpful (unlike some).
 

FrankSpeaks

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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
4,625
Lloyds considering selling some of its Irish property loan portfolio at a discount. Seems like figures between 10% and 25% of book value are mooted.

Lloyds mulls sale of

But of course some muppets here think Irish people caught up in this nightmare should pay full value for their lifetime and that of their kids, and live in penury until they die just to pay back unsustainable mortgages?

Go figure.



D
I think it would require the mind of a muppet to follow the logic of this post.
 

DuineEile

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Um. Your logic is bizarre. Could you explain it? Lloyds will take a loss on their mortgages by selling them, but will still be obliged to pay back their own debts.

I am pointing out that Companies take commercial decisions. They realise that circumstances have changed, or were not as perceived, and cut their cloth accordingly. But apparently the little people aren't allowed to take commercial decisions.


D
 

DuineEile

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Move to the UK and declare bankruptcy and then return home.
You will lose your home.

It's pretty much already gone. I know what I have to do.

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people being happy that companies can just fold and walk away,, and can negotiate on a commercial basis, but seem to want to squeeze ordinary folk hard, as if money was magically going to pop out of some care assistant's pockets just because the bank needs money.

D
 

FrankSpeaks

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I am pointing out that Companies take commercial decisions. They realise that circumstances have changed, or were not as perceived, and cut their cloth accordingly. But apparently the little people aren't allowed to take commercial decisions.


D
Apparently Llyods can afford to take the loss on the portfolio, however for most individual mortgage holders this is not an option, they cannot afford to take the hit and this leaves them with the following choices:

1. Continue to pay the mortgage and stay in the property.
2. Sell the property and pay the mortgage on the loss they have incurred, they will probably still have to pay rent on new accommodation and is the difference worth it over option 1.
3. Go bankrupt.
4. Come to an arrangement with the bank to buy half and rent half.

There may be some other options open that do not come to mind now.
 

DuineEile

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Aug 29, 2010
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Apparently Llyods can afford to take the loss on the portfolio, however for most individual mortgage holders this is not an option, they cannot afford to take the hit and this leaves them with the following choices:

1. Continue to pay the mortgage and stay in the property.
2. Sell the property and pay the mortgage on the loss they have incurred, they will probably still have to pay rent on new accommodation and is the difference worth it over option 1.
3. Go bankrupt.
4. Come to an arrangement with the bank to buy half and rent half.

There may be some other options open that do not come to mind now.

If the mortgage holder is in positive equity, then the mortgage holder has a problem. The bank will sell his house out from under him.


If however, the mortgage holder is in serious negative equity, the the bank is effectively an unsecured creditor for the amount of negative equity, as the security is worthless. I suggest that it is the bank who has the far bigger problem in that case. Which is why the banks are desperate to kick the can down the road, hope for a recovery and a paying down of more debt in the meantime.

People need to understand how screwed the banks are currently before deciding to fuel the bank monster by paying their mortgage.

The bank are going to ride people hard once they are able to. Right now they cannot.


D
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Oct 2, 2011
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14,214
This has the potential to be both good and bad news.

It depends who buys the debt.

What most don't realise is that even though Lloyds are selling the debt at 10% of value, the people with the mortgages could still be forced to pay 100% of the mortgages to the new owner.

If one of the USA vultures buys it, that will mean they will demand 100% repayment of all mortgages and take the Irish government to court in the USA if the debt is not fully repaid. One US debt buyer recently got an Argentine warship seized as collatoral.

Personally I would have preferred the debt to stay in Lloyds hands as they are not to bad to deal with and do negotiate with customers if they are stuck in a mess.

Be very worried who might buy this debt. If it is one of the USA vulture capitalists, prepare to see very brutal tactics applied to the people with mortgages.

A suggestion if any of you know a major tax evader in Ireland that might help everyone from the economy, to taxman to the ordinary people in the street.

Get someone who is very rich to buy that debt. They can then arrange to cancel the debt with the mortgage holder on condition, that say they do not take out a loan of any description for ten years, cancel there credit cards and open a savings account in a credit union, whereby they pay at least €1 a week for ten years into that account. That would remove each mortgage holder from debt and get them in the habit of staying out of debt. Make it clear that if the mortgage holder does not keep up there end of the bargain, that they will instantly revert back to having to repay the full mortgage. ie. carrot and stick approach to debt reduction. At the same time the buyer of the debt could arrange with the taxman a get out of jail free card because he has just removed ten times the amount of debt from Irish society, that he owes.

Not perfect, but might be a way to knock some chucks out of the problem and make it more manageable.
 
Last edited:

PeeMac

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Feb 17, 2009
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391
As far as I see it this is the exact opposite of what DuineEile wants. Llyods have an asset, the loan book, which they will sell at a discount, but are taking the loss themsleves.
DE has an asset which s/he wants to sell at a loss but have someone else take the loss.
The little people can do exactly what Lloyds have done, but they don't want to realise that loss.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Apr 18, 2008
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If the mortgage holder is in positive equity, then the mortgage holder has a problem. The bank will sell his house out from under him.

D
WTF?:confused:
 
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