• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

If Michael Collins was never killed?


RahenyFG

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,206
What do you think would have happened if Michael Collins wasn't murdered in 1922? Would he have been taoiseach? Invaded the north? or got the treaty factions to re-unite
 

Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,090
First off, Collins was not murdered - he was a soldier who ambushed and killed in a gun battle during a war.

Had he not been killed at Beal naBlath it is likely he would have brought the Civil War to an end and followed the same path taken by his successors to build the Free State but would have moved against the North.
 

Tomas Mor

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,389
Hard to know, dying young is a good advantage.I suspect he would have knuckled down to a conservative catholic state like we had.
 

SevenStars

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
4,232
Thank God he was killed when he was and curse the devil that he wasnt killed sooner.
 

Future Irish Leader

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
1,026
we would now probably have a proper left right wing divide with no fianna fail as dev would just hav looked like an idiot wantin his 32 counties
 

seabhac siulach

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
415
What do you think would have happened if Michael Collins wasn't murdered in 1922? Would he have been taoiseach? Invaded the north? or got the treaty factions to re-unite
I've always wondered whether, following the fashion of fascism in the 1930s, a still-living Collins might have been tempted to follow the path of Franco in Spain, i.e. a 'successful' military commander seizing power in a coup-type situation (to be followed by civil war in Spain's case). Perhaps I am being unfair to his democratic instincts...
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Questions would have to be asked for sure, they buried him a few days after the reported shooting and if he wasn't killed, what were they at?
 

DuineEile

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
14,939
He'd be looking forward to his 120th birthday next month, and wondering how we managed to ************************ up the country he managed to partially liberate.

He'd be crying into his beer that Ireland was more British now than it ever was in his youth.

He'd be scratching his head as to how a party like Fine Gael was trying to claim him as one of their heroes, and he'd telling anyone who would listen that he was very disappointed in his niece and others who were suggesting he was some sort of dove in his early days.

He'd probably be thinking back on his many years in prison for flying a tricolour in his window, and wondering about all the photographs the Garda special branch had taken of him.

D
 

Esttopt

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
34
What do you think would have happened if Michael Collins wasn't murdered in 1922? Would he have been taoiseach? Invaded the north? or got the treaty factions to re-unite
Dying young is good for your legacy. He died a hero. If he had lived he would have had many years to tarnish his legacy.
 

RahenyFG

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,206
He'd probably be thinking back on his many years in prison for flying a tricolour in his window, and wondering about all the photographs the Garda special branch had taken of him.

D
Correction. It wasn't the Gardai Special Branch spying on him. It was G men from Dublin Castle and the RUC. The Gardai was founded after he died.
 

Passionateheart

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
166
Many experts say he was more ruthless than Dev, but I get the feeling he wanted the civil war over and get back to the homoerotic wrestling with his old colleagues. The Cosgrave government was probably more psychotic than any which would be led by him, he also had a sense of honour, unlike Eff Effer cute whorism.
Would we have a better Taig Republic today, had he survived? Perhaps a little, hard to imagine it any worse, but no unification with The Jaffa Statelette either!
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
54
I think he would have been the same as the resultant Cummann na Ghaedheal govt. His ruthlessness in the executions he had carried out while head of intelligence shows what hed do to his enemys among his own, itd be the same as with the Brits.

However, faith the northern IRA had in him shows he may have been more agressive toward the north and would not have accepted the Boundary Commision dissolution.

Basically hed be akin to O' Duffy, but more capable, and ruthless.
 

SlabMurphy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,701
Website
www.dublin.ie
Correction. It wasn't the Gardai Special Branch spying on him. It was G men from Dublin Castle and the RUC. The Gardai was founded after he died.
Quite a few of what was called the Civic Guard which was the state's fore runner of the Guard had quite a few members of the RIC in it. Including G men.
Many would say it was just a name change for the thugs of the Special Branch to harass, assault and for that matter, murder Republicans.
 

redtoothclaw

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
85
Collins would have defeated the anti-Treaty forces and would not have hesitated to use execution and terror to bring them to heel. Bitter civil war divisions would have persisted and over the subsequent years both Collins and De Valera might well have served terms as Taoiseach. Collins like De Valera would have sought to dismantle the Treaty piece by piece and eventually withdrawn the twenty-six counties from the Commonwealth but might have avoided the foolish Economic War of the 1930's nor maintained an antagonistic relationship with the British.
Collins might have engaged with Northern Ireland much more by standing up to the Unionist/Protestant triumphalism and discrimination against Catholics.
Strict Catholic piety was intense in Ireland and Collins would have played ball rather than risk political unpopularity but he might not have allowed such strict censorship of books, films and publications.
Collins was pro-business and enterprise and the years of economic stagnation in the 30's, 40's and 50's might not been so severe.
If Collins were Taoiseach he would have relished a scrap and might well have taken Ireland into the Second World War on the side of the Allies. He might have sought to modernise the Irish military and Ireland would have been used as a base for planes and vessels in the Battle of the Atlantic perhaps helping to shorten the war. Dublin and Cork would have suffered from German bombing like Belfast and Derry. American soldiers would have been based in Southern Ireland 'over sexed, over paid and over here' and after the war Ireland would have benefited from the Marshall Plan as reward for our help.
He would almost certainly have served a term or two as President in his later years. We know he was good at speeches, he was a handsome man and so he would have made good use of radio and cinema in his political career.
The political rivalry between Collins and De Valera might well have dominated Irish politics but might have been amicable. De Valera might very well have been put in the shade.
 

Gemlarkin

Active member
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
239
He was a Minister of the legitimate Government murdered by criminals

First off, Collins was not murdered - he was a soldier who ambushed and killed in a gun battle during a war.

Had he not been killed at Beal naBlath it is likely he would have brought the Civil War to an end and followed the same path taken by his successors to build the Free State but would have moved against the North.
He was a Minister of the legitimate Government murdered by criminals

You can learn more about his views here. He wrote a book called Path to Freedom
http://generalmichaelcollins.com/pages/Path_to_Freedom.html
 
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
25
I've always wondered whether, following the fashion of fascism in the 1930s, a still-living Collins might have been tempted to follow the path of Franco in Spain, i.e. a 'successful' military commander seizing power in a coup-type situation (to be followed by civil war in Spain's case). Perhaps I am being unfair to his democratic instincts...
When addressing the troops on the eve of the plebiscite on the treaty he told them that the Army were the servants of the people not their masters. I couldn't have seen him do a complete change about.
 
Top