If punitive USC tax rates are cut in the coming October budget, could income tax revenues rise after a time?

Paddyc

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You'd basically base it on price...

Any cars selling for over €20K could have a fair amount of VAT whacked on them... on a sliding scale upwards...

Similarly any shoes/handbags etc. that are over... oh I dunno... let's say €150 could have a fair amount of VAT whacked on them too...

The bands wouldn't be set in stone... and would change in budgets...

I don't think it would be too hard to decide what is and what isn't a luxury item and the degree of luxury/ostentation any particular item represents...
So the people carrier for a family of five with all the safety features would have a higher VAT rate because it costs more than a two door sports car. Where's the fairness in that?

At what price does a particular item become a luxury rather than a necessity?

When a pair of work boots cost more than open toed sandals, where does the VAT kick in?
 


dresden8

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Ireland spends about 12.5% of the economy on health care, compared to a parsimonious 9% in the UK. We need reform of the workers co-op (including doctors) that runs the health service, not throwing more money at it. Above all, a pay freeze is needed to enable the hiring of more workers for existing pay budgets in order to end the understaffing that makes A&E workplaces highly stressful. There would be less job turnover in properly staffed A&Es.
A pay freeze would end understaffing.

Noice.
 

patslatt

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A pay freeze would end understaffing.

Noice.
Understaffing in A&Es causes stressful working conditions. Those conditions in turn-not pay-cause high turnover of staff.

If pay which is very high-way higher than in the UK-is frozen, more staff could be hired than if pay is increased. That would ease stressful working conditions and improve staff retention. Get it?
 

Watcher2

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In a discussion on Newstalk this afternoon, politicians didn't mention the possibility that cutting punitive USC tax rates could lead to increases in tax revenues over time. Have Finance and Revenue done any serious statistical studies of the elasticity of income tax rates-the percentage tax revenues would change over time in response to a percentage cut in tax rates?

A big cut in USC could encourage many housewives to join the workforce, many emigrants to return home and small businesses to expand. For high income Irish emigrants abroad, Irish income tax rates must look punitive. For small businesses thinking about expansion in Dublin, there is a huge risk in taking on very high commercial rates and any income earned will be taxed at top rates on dividends paid out.

There is a case to be made for slashing USC on economic efficiency grounds alone, not because a cut would be popular.
Small businesses paying out dividends? Why would small business owners extract income in the form of dividends, suffer the withholding tax and then income tax thereafter?
 

Hibee

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The USC will be removed as simply it is seen as the bill for the Celtic tiger largesse .
 

fliball1234

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Small problem with that is that nurse for example get paid better, for lower hours, with better opportunities for progression and further education, in the UK (amongst other places). Pay freeze is great if you have people prepared to work for what you're offering. According to nursing representatives, we don't.

The other other side is this ISME have conducted a survey with the CSO and the public sector on average are paid 40% more than the unwashed masses in the private sector so the plebites in the private sector have to pay for this and we cant afford it. We pay more than enough for a decent public service and health care the problem is how the money is mismanaged and spent in the wrong areas..over 80% of monies going into healthcare is ringfenced to pay the pay bill. We cannot afford anymore

https://www.businessworld.ie/financial-news/Average-public-sector-pay-40-higher-than-private-sector-565518.html
 

SeanieFitz

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Only visit here every few months now but even still before even opening the thread it is clear the OP is patslatt.

Some things never change :p
But you have to admit that his infatuation with one sector of Irish society is interesting and somewhat pitiful
 

fliball1234

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But you have to admit that his infatuation with one sector of Irish society is interesting and somewhat pitiful

the pitiful part is the status quo remains. Public sector now earning 40% more then their private sector counterparts and yet they are kicking and screaming for more. I cant blame the chap he is highlighting one of the major issues with our ecconomy we pay too much for a piss poor public sector and the ps and semi state chaps think that they are all auditioning for the part of Oliver "please sure can I have some more"..Well phuck right off we cant afford any more

https://www.businessworld.ie/financial-news/Average-public-sector-pay-40-higher-than-private-sector-565518.html
 
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wexfordman

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The other other side is this ISME have conducted a survey with the CSO and the public sector on average are paid 40% more than the unwashed masses in the private sector so the plebites in the private sector have to pay for this and we cant afford it. We pay more than enough for a decent public service and health care the problem is how the money is mismanaged and spent in the wrong areas..over 80% of monies going into healthcare is ringfenced to pay the pay bill. We cannot afford anymore

https://www.businessworld.ie/financial-news/Average-public-sector-pay-40-higher-than-private-sector-565518.html
I think they also stated that the uk comparison shows that uk pblic sector pay is on average 13% higher than uk private sector wages.
The fact that there is a higher average salary is not really an issue, the state as an employer should be a model employer offering good terms and conditions, and the old argument of the higher skill set within the public sector may or may not be valid also.

It is interesting though looking at the irish 40% public v private premium versus the uk 13% public v private sector premium. Why is there such a disparity ?

edit:- doh, looking for the link, hold on
 
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Spanner Island

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Then you're massively underestimating the complexity of consumer culture.
I don't think I am tbh...

There's things that are necessary to live an average/decent life...

Those things vary based on where you are on the planet and in which country you live.

It shouldn't be hard for any society to decide what is a necessity and what isn't within it...

Of course it's in the interests of many to make everything as complicated and as complex as possible... and usually those interests are vested and self serving...

Look at tax as an example... it should be really transparent and simple... and yet it's not... due to all sorts of vested interests taking their cut within the current mess... from accountants to auditors to advisers to those who benefit from the rigging and who can afford to pay people (more vested interests) to help them pay as little tax as possible...

When you've got big accountancy firms advising governments on tax policy etc... who then go out and charge fortunes to 'advise' those who can afford them about the various loopholes they've built into the system... and... well... it's just a f***ing scam really... the entire rotten thing...
 

Spanner Island

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So the people carrier for a family of five with all the safety features would have a higher VAT rate because it costs more than a two door sports car. Where's the fairness in that?

At what price does a particular item become a luxury rather than a necessity?

When a pair of work boots cost more than open toed sandals, where does the VAT kick in?
You're just trying to over complicate things...

This shouldn't be difficult... although obviously plenty of people would like to make it that way... and have done which is why we have the current mess...

Work boots for example... would have a low tax rate because they'd be used for work... and if whoever bought them wanted to wear them on a night out... fair enough... but I doubt many would...

People carrier for a family of 5... great... you get a decent standard variant and base all the rest on that...

Sports car... not really a necessity for anyone... so whack a load of tax on that...

Not particularly complicated stuff...
 

Spanner Island

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The USC will be removed as simply it is seen as the bill for the Celtic tiger largesse .
Nah... much as I loathe it and the eFFing traitors for creating the necessity for it, the USC is actually one of the fairest and most progressive taxes/charges we've got...

It should be kept with some tweaking to the rates and the bands as time moves on... but it shouldn't be scrapped.
 

fliball1234

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I think they also stated that the uk comparison shows that uk pblic sector pay is on average 13% higher than uk private sector wages.
The fact that there is a higher average salary is not really an issue, the state as an employer should be a model employer offering good terms and conditions, and the old argument of the higher skill set within the public sector may or may not be valid also.

It is interesting though looking at the irish 40% public v private premium versus the uk 13% public v private sector premium. Why is there such a disparity ?

edit:- doh, looking for the link, hold on
I hear you the funny thing is the public sector used to be back in the 60s/70s/80s on the lower side of things as in you got job certainty and a great pension for being paid less than if you were in the private sector. Roll on 2016 and they are getting 40% extra than their private sector counterpart and pensions that are in need of about 100billion to pay going forward as well and of course the unwashed masses of the private sector gets their pensions pinched and now over 60% are not paying a pension as its not worth a jot on retirement then in the background you have every union spouting about pay rise pay rise..You couldnt make this sh1t up. We need a maggie thatcher in this country and I fuppin hated her but she had balls to take on the unions and that is whats needed. If any union asks for a pay rise they should be told your members will get a payrise when we all do through the reduction of income tax and all the while increments are still being paid ..its phucking baffling and people give out about pat I dont blame the chap being so annoyed
 
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patslatt

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Small businesses paying out dividends? Why would small business owners extract income in the form of dividends, suffer the withholding tax and then income tax thereafter?
Some small businesses need to reinvest profits for years, so it might make sense to pay dividends instead of having huge partner salaries that could upset the salary pecking order of employees.Medium size businesses are more likely to pay dividends.
 


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