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If Richard Bruton's Coup Had Been Sucessful?


General Urko

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I wouldn't put them in charge of a septic tank, the battling words of Phil Hogan as the FG establishment rallied around Enda as he faced the heave which threatened to put Dickie Bruton into power! With support from Shatter, Phillo and Reilly, the hot young things proposing a change to the old order, Creighton, Coveney and Leo were rebuked!
Mind you with the exception of Noonan, famously back onside with Enda and getting Finance as a prize, the main loyal older supporters have more or less made a living we all know what out of their ministerial portfolios!
Then again, some of the main sponsors of the dickyite rebellion have certainly not covered themselves in glory and really only proved that they have a vastly inflated opinion of their own abilities!
The exceptions to both camps have ironically been Enda and Dickey, who have in many ways manned up and exceeded expectations, which may not have been great any way!
So if the dickeyites had emerged over the Kennyites, what would have happened in GE 2011 and where would we be today?
 

Honecker

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I'm not convinced the likes of Creighton and Hayes are a step up from Hogan and Reilly.
 
S

simeongrimes

FG would have still won. The possible major change is that he may have tried to govern without Labour.

We would now have Gilmore Rabbitte et al screaming in the Dail about cutbacks and lining themselves up to lead the next government.
 

General Urko

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General Urko

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FG would have still won. The possible major change is that he may have tried to govern without Labour.

We would now have Gilmore Rabbitte et al screaming in the Dail about cutbacks and lining themselves up to lead the next government.
And a sooner GE than original timeline!
 

General Urko

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Oh and what would have happened Enda?

They were trying to entice him up to the park!

In the presidential race, he would have done marginally better than that great catholic Gay Mitchell, but would still have been a disaster, If Gay lost his deposit, Enda might have too!:D
 

Little_Korean

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Don't see how there would have been a huge difference if Bruton had gotten in as FG head honcho instead.
 

cyberianpan

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If Richard Bruton's Coup Had Been Sucessful? :

I'd likely be sporting a FG avatar and FG would be at 40%+ in the polls with FF vanquished

cYp
 

wombat

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Doesn't matter, it didn't. What would have happened if Lincoln had missed the play, Kennedy hadn't visited Dallas, Cowen hadn't sung the Lakes of Pontchartrain.....?:lol:
 

General Urko

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Doesn't matter, it didn't. What would have happened if Lincoln had missed the play, Kennedy hadn't visited Dallas, Cowen hadn't sung the Lakes of Pontchartrain.....?:lol:
The Neville Chamberlain of Irish politics (BIFFO) was going down whether he sang Lakes of Pontchartrain and imitated Phillip Walton or not! Re the rest, we cam learn a lot from counterfactual analysis!
 

General Urko

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The Neville Chamberlain of Irish politics (BIFFO) was going down whether he sang Lakes of Pontchartrain and imitated Phillip Walton or not! Re the rest, we cam learn a lot from counterfactual analysis!
Indeed whether he was "congested" or not!:lol:
 

Auld Cynic

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FG might have got 5 extra seats & could have governed almost alone with Lord Ross & young Donnelly's support, might have tackled & bested the public sector trades unions by tearing up Croke Park I and bringing about compulsory redundancies, forced pay reductions and then faced down their 'you have us shuddering in our boots' threats of 'industrial action'. Now that would have been public sector reform.
 

General Urko

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FG might have got 5 extra seats & could have governed almost alone with Lord Ross & young Donnelly's support, might have tackled & bested the public sector trades unions by tearing up Croke Park I and bringing about compulsory redundancies, forced pay reductions and then faced down their 'you have us shuddering in our boots' threats of 'industrial action'. Now that would have been public sector reform.
While we might have seen real public sector reform under Dickie, and I would love that (as I am against apartheid!), the blueshirts would not have got 4 seats in Mayo!
 

Auld Cynic

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While we might have seen real public sector reform under Dickie, and I would love that (as I am against apartheid!), the blueshirts would not have got 4 seats in Mayo!
You're right there but they might have got two in Dublin North Central & seen off Finian. They might have stood a better chance in Dublin NW (even with Bill Tormey!), had a chance of 3 in Laois Offaly with Charlie being on the winning side, got 3 in Cork South Central seeing off Michael McGrath and maybe 3 in Wexford.
 

stakerwallace

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You're right there but they might have got two in Dublin North Central & seen off Finian. They might have stood a better chance in Dublin NW (even with Bill Tormey!), had a chance of 3 in Laois Offaly with Charlie being on the winning side, got 3 in Cork South Central seeing off Michael McGrath and maybe 3 in Wexford.
Tormey? Now I know you are joking.
 

stakerwallace

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FG might have got 5 extra seats & could have governed almost alone with Lord Ross & young Donnelly's support, might have tackled & bested the public sector trades unions by tearing up Croke Park I and bringing about compulsory redundancies, forced pay reductions and then faced down their 'you have us shuddering in our boots' threats of 'industrial action'. Now that would have been public sector reform.
That would have done the Trade Unions no end of good. Nothing like a good fight to galvanise membership.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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I think their chances of an overall majority would have been increased if Bruton had taken over. Like it or not, he was the clear favourite over Kenny among the general public. There was a sense of disbelief among anyone I spoke to afterwards that FG had kept him.

Bruton as leader would have automatically netted them extra seats in Dublin - NC, NE, NW being the obvious examples. They would have lost a seat in Mayo.

Overall, with a leader who was clearly popular among the public and seen as highly competent, FG would have been in a far better position to withstand the 2/3% slippage in the final days of the campaign as a result of Labour's overall majority scaremongering.

A Bruton leadership would have swept has-beens like Jimmy Deenihan and probably Frances Fitzgerald aside. Hogan would have been axed also. The younger officer corps of Hayes Varadkar Creighton would all be in more prominent positions now.

The only negative frontline consequence of Bruton winning would be that Michael Noonan would never have returned to frontline politics. He was a massive asset to FG during the election, and has been a massive asset to the Government.

On the whole, FG (and the country) would probably be in a stronger position today if Bruton had won that contest, but it's impossible to quantify it.
 

stakerwallace

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As Bruton wasn't capable of doing a headcount within FG before his attempted coup, I'm not sure he would find his way around outside the Pale.
 

hiding behind a poster

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I wouldn't put them in charge of a septic tank, the battling words of Phil Hogan as the FG establishment rallied around Enda as he faced the heave which threatened to put Dickie Bruton into power! With support from Shatter, Phillo and Reilly, the hot young things proposing a change to the old order, Creighton, Coveney and Leo were rebuked!
Mind you with the exception of Noonan, famously back onside with Enda and getting Finance as a prize, the main loyal older supporters have more or less made a living we all know what out of their ministerial portfolios!
Then again, some of the main sponsors of the dickyite rebellion have certainly not covered themselves in glory and really only proved that they have a vastly inflated opinion of their own abilities!
The exceptions to both camps have ironically been Enda and Dickey, who have in many ways manned up and exceeded expectations, which may not have been great any way!
So if the dickeyites had emerged over the Kennyites, what would have happened in GE 2011 and where would we be today?
I don't think you're right - Coveney and Varadkar have certainly done well, and Hayes was unlikely to get a cabinet ministry under Enda due to geography, heave or no heave. But he's got the senior junior ministry, so to speak, and looks good for promotion whenever the reshuffle comes.
 
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