• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

If Scotland secedes...

florin

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
1,346
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
 


blinding

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
17,400
I like to think so but the unionist would probably start digging deeper trenches.If scotland prospered it would put more pressure on NI to grow up and stand on its own feet and it would give the english another excuse to erase that troublesome place froms its responsibility.
 

LTGuy

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
118
florin said:
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
What makes you think the Scotch would want that dump aka black hole in their midst? :shock:
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,621
LTGuy said:
florin said:
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
What makes you think the Scotch would want that dump aka black hole in their midst? :shock:
Scotch is a drink. You mean Scots.
 

LTGuy

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
118
Aindriu said:
LTGuy said:
florin said:
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
What makes you think the Scotch would want that dump aka black hole in their midst? :shock:
Scotch is a drink. You mean Scots.
Scotch is also an adjective, thus by employing the article ("the Scotch") you can substantivize it. The Scotch = the Scots ;)
 

Combine

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
7
florin said:
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
No.
 
S

Starkadder

There might be some desire for a NI-Scottish Union among some sections of the Protestant
community,but I doubt any independent Scottish government would want to take on the
financial headache of running NI.
 

fergalr

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
354
Well it would probably put the Exchequer in the black permanently.
 
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
17
Website
iosaf.baywords.com
this thread really puts the the yarn through the eye of the needle.

Wasn't that the idea all along? Divide and Conquer.

Only thing enthusiastic Irish people might miss is, that the Scottish and any of those of Ulster who played with them, would spawn, rear and raise a better Celtic Tiger than the Dublin government ever dreamed of. They already have the best celtic branding. Put it this way - I can find 25 Irish pubs in walking distance of my home, but the moment I say "celtic" or "whisk*y" people say Scottish.
 

fergalr

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
354
Celtic branding me arse... Mention the words "Northern" and "Ireland" to foreigners and see what the initial preconceptions you get back are :p
 

Green eyed monster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
2,429
luther blisset said:
They already have the best celtic branding. Put it this way - I can find 25 Irish pubs in walking distance of my home, but the moment I say "celtic" or "whisk*y" people say Scottish.
That's because you live in Barcelona and the team recently played several high profile champions league matches with the Scottish football club called Celtic. In fact if you said Celtic they might be assuming you were talking about the football club only and not the culture. In terms of whisky you are absolutely correct, Scottish whiskey is much more famous.

In terms of the influence of film i would say that they also have the edge (even if the best among them are made in Ireland), what country wouldn't want to have a film of Braveheart's style, verve and passion made about an element of their history? This film was extraordinarily influential, not least inside Scotland itself and concerning the issue of independence.
 

Justin

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
60
florin said:
...should Northern Ireland go with it?

Both sides can claim a greater historical and cultural affinity with Scotland than with England or Wales. NI would have 1/4 the population of the new state, as opposed to its tininess in the current UK.
No.but the 'United Kingdom' is close to its sell by date and what replaces it has still to be decided.Paisley and Salmond seem to have struck up a relationship in recent years and what they seem to envisage is an alliance against Westminster power.Irish nationalism isn't London centric in that way but it might have to take account of wider relationships if unity is to achieved.
 

gako

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
231
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
 

CreamCracker

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
87
gako said:
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
 

gako

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
231
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there are catholic -unionist- conservative- scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
 

CreamCracker

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
87
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there or catholic unionist conservative scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
I fully agree. I have loads of English cousins, as I have some English heritage myself, and most of my English relations are Catholic. They are also very loyal to England and oh-so-English and proud of it. And fair enough.
PS: In these islands, when it comes to politics, 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' are meant in the 'background culture' sense rather than a religious sense. So you can be an 'Ulster Catholic' or 'Ulster Protestant' but still be a non-believer! :lol: It's gas!
 

gako

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
231
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there or catholic unionist conservative scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
I fully agree. I have loads of English cousins, as I have some English heritage myself, and most of my English relations are Catholic. They are also very loyal to England and oh-so-English and proud of it. And fair enough.
PS: In these islands, when it comes to politics, 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' are meant in the 'background culture' sense rather than a religious sense. So you can be an 'Ulster Catholic' or 'Ulster Protestant' but still be a non-believer! :lol: It's gas!
Well it depends for me, especially if your relations are proud of their english history, in relation to Ireland, ie; Cromwell, and in being in tandem with loyalist death squads in the north etc etc. And for "here" you can be an Ulster 9 county sense, or an Ulster 6 county sense. Me going for the former true historical sense.
Probably more than half of the present Sinn Fein membership are not practicing catholics.For them, practising your faith, is not related to their political work.
 

CreamCracker

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
87
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there or catholic unionist conservative scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
I fully agree. I have loads of English cousins, as I have some English heritage myself, and most of my English relations are Catholic. They are also very loyal to England and oh-so-English and proud of it. And fair enough.
PS: In these islands, when it comes to politics, 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' are meant in the 'background culture' sense rather than a religious sense. So you can be an 'Ulster Catholic' or 'Ulster Protestant' but still be a non-believer! :lol: It's gas!
Well it depends for me, especially if your relations are proud of their english history, in relation to Ireland, ie; Cromwell, and in being in tandem with loyalist death squads in the north etc etc. And for here you can be an Ulster 9 county sense, or an Ulster 6 county sense. Me going for the former true historical sense.
Ah yeah, I know. Above, I just meant Ulster Catholic or Protestant as shorthand for NI and the whole jazz in the context of Northern Ireland. But of course Ulster, the province, has 9 counties.
My English cousins, I'd assume, like most English people, don't realise the full extent of their history, and whatever they do know would, I'd imagine, be whitewashed and sanitized. Also generally speaking, very little, if any, history is learnt about Ireland.
 

gako

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
231
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
gako said:
CreamCracker said:
[quote="gako":1h6ukxbd]Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!
For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there or catholic unionist conservative scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
I fully agree. I have loads of English cousins, as I have some English heritage myself, and most of my English relations are Catholic. They are also very loyal to England and oh-so-English and proud of it. And fair enough.
PS: In these islands, when it comes to politics, 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' are meant in the 'background culture' sense rather than a religious sense. So you can be an 'Ulster Catholic' or 'Ulster Protestant' but still be a non-believer! :lol: It's gas!
Well it depends for me, especially if your relations are proud of their english history, in relation to Ireland, ie; Cromwell, and in being in tandem with loyalist death squads in the north etc etc. And for here you can be an Ulster 9 county sense, or an Ulster 6 county sense. Me going for the former true historical sense.
Ah yeah, I know. Above, I just meant Ulster Catholic or Protestant as shorthand for NI and the whole jazz in the context of Northern Ireland. But of course Ulster, the province, has 9 counties.
My English cousins, I'd assume, like most English people, don't realise the full extent of their history, and whatever they do know would, I'd imagine, be whitewashed and sanitized. Also generally speaking, very little, if any, history is learnt about Ireland.[/quote:1h6ukxbd]
You see because we have had a toubled history, not of our making, it is always in the irish conscience. Like anywhere in the world that has been brutally occupied, there is always going to be a long bad memory of that past, and for those that inflicted that past. For in the north of Ireland, that occupation continues. And the memory is raw.
I am sure for many hundreds of years, it has always been nice to have lived in an english country rose garden. But for many countrys around the world, this has been on their backs! There are many things I like about English culture, Shakespear, Tony Benn, Oassis, etc etc, Irish peple are not all long jaw boned, high forehead, drunken, Terry wogans ;)
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top