- Mar 30, 2008
Ah yeah, I know. Above, I just meant Ulster Catholic or Protestant as shorthand for NI and the whole jazz in the context of Northern Ireland. But of course Ulster, the province, has 9 counties.gako said:Well it depends for me, especially if your relations are proud of their english history, in relation to Ireland, ie; Cromwell, and in being in tandem with loyalist death squads in the north etc etc. And for here you can be an Ulster 9 county sense, or an Ulster 6 county sense. Me going for the former true historical sense.CreamCracker said:I fully agree. I have loads of English cousins, as I have some English heritage myself, and most of my English relations are Catholic. They are also very loyal to England and oh-so-English and proud of it. And fair enough.gako said:For myself I find the Irish question, in relation to part of my country being occupied by a foreign invader, more than "interesting". But thats besides the point.CreamCracker said:The majority of Scots who want independence and vote SNP would be, I would speculate, generally from a Protestant background. It seems a majority of Catholics vote for unionist parties, such as 'Scottish' Labour. Then there are other Protestants of the Orange persuasion who generally are proud of their Scottish heritage but within the UK and want to retain all the trappings, such as the English Queen etc etc, and also vote for unionist parties. Then there are some Catholics who (increasingly) would vote SNP too. Of course this is all wide generalisations. The OO in NI, although often from the Scots tradition and proud of it, mostly assert the British 'Union Jack' tag as this is the best way for them, as they see it, to preserve the status quo. This is just how I see it and I'm sure there'll be plenty who disagree with it and that's what makes life interesting!gako said:[quote="CreamCracker":3m3cjjpn][quote="gako":3m3cjjpn]Given the historical relationship between Scotland and England, and the film "Braveheart", etc etc etc, it seems odd that over the 12th of July in Belfast, I never seen one scot wearing anything close to the Scottish national flag or culture,not a kilt in sight. Union jack ,tee shirts, hats, flags, skirts, ties, bags, umberellas, the scottish in the city wore all these. Then for the SNP in scotland to be doing so well, its seems impossible without these very same peoples votes. After all scotland has a protestant majority. Are these people trying to ride two horses? IE: how can you pledge allegiance to the british queen, yet want independance fron her parliament? a thought just occured to me. Why not repatriate all the scotch presbyterians back to Scotland form the north of Ireland.
Then repatriate anybody else who wouldnt be happy, with the repatriation of the 6 counties back to where they belong, with the other 26.
The war that went on in the north, was not a religious war. Catholics can be found in countrys around the world, and who show allegience to their particular country of birth. Irish anglo political relations, throughout our recent history , have always been to do with British occupation, of one part or all, off this island.
If there or catholic unionist conservative scots, fair play. But thats to be fought out amongst the scots!
PS: In these islands, when it comes to politics, 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' are meant in the 'background culture' sense rather than a religious sense. So you can be an 'Ulster Catholic' or 'Ulster Protestant' but still be a non-believer! :lol: It's gas!
My English cousins, I'd assume, like most English people, don't realise the full extent of their history, and whatever they do know would, I'd imagine, be whitewashed and sanitized. Also generally speaking, very little, if any, history is learnt about Ireland.[/quote:3m3cjjpn]
You see because we have had a toubled history, not of our making, it is always in the irish conscience. Like anywhere in the world that has been brutally occupied, there is always going to be a long bad memory of that past, and for those that inflicted that past. For in the north of Ireland, that occupation continues. And the memory is raw.
I am sure for many hundreds of years, it has always been nice to have lived in an english country rose garden. But for many countrys around the world, this has been on their backs! There are many things I like about English culture, Shakespear, Tony Benn, Oassis, etc etc, Irish peple are not all long jaw boned, high forehead, drunken, Terry wogans [/quote:3m3cjjpn]
I agree wholeheartedly, as though I said it myself. I like England too, but not a lot of its history. I'm very proud to be Irish though.
By the way, one of my older English cousins who's a doctor, did an evening degree in Celtic Studies with his wife a few years ago. But I don't really them that well and have never talked to them on that subject or anything about Ireland either.