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If SF & SDLP decided to sign the Petition of Concern regarding Welfare Reform Bill - what then ?


PO'Neill

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If SF & SDLP decided to sign the Petition of Concern regarding Welfare Reform Bill - what then ?

As above. Now I'm not into the finer points of how a petition of concern is resolved so if someone can put me straight. But if SF and SDLP decided to sign the petition of concern, I presume the issue would go to London, and Westminster been the final arbitrator would have said something like " Listen Paddy's, if the Jocks and Taffy's can accept it, you lot will have to also " ?

Personally I think SF made a balls of it hoping to bring the unionists on board in an attempt to get it changed or else trying to dump it in Finance Minister Sammy Wilson's lap. But as above, how could the rejection of the Welfare Reform Bill have been completed through the petition of concern by SF and the SDLP ?
 

InsideImDancing

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As above. Now I'm not into the finer points of how a petition of concern is resolved so if someone can put me straight. But if SF and SDLP decided to sign the petition of concern, I presume the issue would go to London, and Westminster been the final arbitrator would have said something like " Listen Paddy's, if the Jocks and Taffy's can accept it, you lot will have to also " ?

Personally I think SF made a balls of it hoping to bring the unionists on board in an attempt to get it changed or else trying to dump it in Finance Minister Sammy Wilson's lap. But as above, how could the rejection of the Welfare Reform Bill have been completed through the petition of concern by SF and the SDLP ?
As far as I understand it, the bill would then have needed a cross-community vote? Unionists reckoned it would take a few (two?) hundred million out of the block grant. Breaking with parity with britain would have administrative costs etc. SF pretty much said it would reduce welfare spend here by 500 million overall.




























Or something like thon.
 
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Castle Ray

To reject a reserved matter would surely have caused damage to the welfare system in NI and those claiming benefits would have been adversely effected by such an action. The time to argue for / against the bill was before it received Royal Assent early this year.

What I have to wonder is what are SF and SDLP against in the bill? The bill seems fair and it looks like its a simpler system too. What the problem with it?
 

InsideImDancing

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To reject a reserved matter would surely have caused damage to the welfare system in NI and those claiming benefits would have been adversely effected by such an action. The time to argue for / against the bill was before it received Royal Assent early this year.

What I have to wonder is what are SF and SDLP against in the bill? The bill seems fair and it looks like its a simpler system too. What the problem with it?
I think their problem with it is that the Tories plan to save an awful lot of money out of it, therefore they see it as cutting the feck out of social welfare, and socialist types are bound to "oppose" what they see as ideological Tory cuts on "the most vulnerable".
 
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Castle Ray

I think their problem with it is that the Tories plan to save an awful lot of money out of it, therefore they see it as cutting the feck out of social welfare, and socialist types are bound to "oppose" what they see as ideological Tory cuts on "the most vulnerable".
The bill protects those most in need, it is fair and it is simple.

SF and the SDLP should put forward an argument against it. Maybe they did but surely it can't just be that if the government propose it, they oppose it?
 

vivabrigada

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The bill protects those most in need, it is fair and it is simple.

SF and the SDLP should put forward an argument against it. Maybe they did but surely it can't just be that if the government propose it, they oppose it?
Good thinking from a bunch of millionaires, hit the poorest people in society, eh?
 

Mickeymac

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The bill protects those most in need, it is fair and it is simple.

SF and the SDLP should put forward an argument against it. Maybe they did but surely it can't just be that if the government propose it, they oppose it?

This may simply be a case of Nationalist politicos listening to their vote base and onionist politicos treating their voters with contempt........as usual.
 

InsideImDancing

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InsideImDancing

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The bill protects those most in need, it is fair and it is simple.

SF and the SDLP should put forward an argument against it. Maybe they did but surely it can't just be that if the government propose it, they oppose it?
As far as I can see, SF aren't opposing the bill outright, they're looking to tinker with it.
 

Ren84

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Look, does the glorified county council known as Stormont have powers over welfare in the north? Because if they don't then I don't see the point in these welfare acts, or any attempts by SF to stop them getting passed.
 

ArtyisBack

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I don't think it is a reserved matter.
Castle Ray seems to think it is. Of course it should have ben killed at birth. If it does not suit us send it back and tell the British to try again. What are they going to do? What can they do?
 

InsideImDancing

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Castle Ray seems to think it is. Of course it should have ben killed at birth. If it does not suit us send it back and tell the British to try again. What are they going to do? What can they do?
Fair point. Money out of the block grant seems to be the Unionists' answer to that.
 

Mickeymac

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Castle Ray seems to think it is. Of course it should have ben killed at birth. If it does not suit us send it back and tell the British to try again. What are they going to do? What can they do?

Concur Arty, you need to remember though that CR only posts articles that suits his political dogma.
 

ArtyisBack

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Fair point. Money out of the block grant seems to be the Unionists' answer to that.
Then it would indeed become a reserved matter. For me that is an ideal step. I never wanted a Stormont. I wanted Britain to take responsibility for her occupancy. If they took away the block grant and kept it in London then responsibility for running the health service would surely follow the money. If we would do that for every imposition it would surely show the world that this is not a tenable solution. The Irish problem straight onto the lap of dear old Blighty.
 

PO'Neill

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Look, does the glorified county council known as Stormont have powers over welfare in the north? Because if they don't then I don't see the point in these welfare acts, or any attempts by SF to stop them getting passed.
Exactly and that's the point of the OP which no one has even attempted to answer. SF have ( to a degree rightly) been accused of gamesmanship on tehir handling of the issue, but when it's asked - If SF & SDLP decided to sign the Petition of Concern regarding Welfare Reform Bill - what then ? - no one will answer.

Ok unionist or nationalist, can anyone tell me " If SF & SDLP decided to sign the Petition of Concern regarding Welfare Reform Bill - what then ? "
 
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Castle Ray

Castle Ray seems to think it is. Of course it should have ben killed at birth. If it does not suit us send it back and tell the British to try again. What are they going to do? What can they do?
:lol:
 

DT123

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Then it would indeed become a reserved matter. For me that is an ideal step. I never wanted a Stormont. I wanted Britain to take responsibility for her occupancy. If they took away the block grant and kept it in London then responsibility for running the health service would surely follow the money. If we would do that for every imposition it would surely show the world that this is not a tenable solution. The Irish problem straight onto the lap of dear old Blighty.
Return of Direct Rule and the end of Stormont.I'm with you Arty ,bin the whole lot and use the money saved for the good of everyone.
 
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