If Trump gets impeached or goes .. What next? Is their a big divide in US society opened up?

robut

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The subject question is not ignoring that Pence will probably become president, which in of itself should be interesting also ..

And as an aside question - what happens if Pence also goes or gets impeached?

Some say Trump left in place is far better than Pence .. thoughts on this also?

I want to broaden this out a bit more - If trump goes what of America itself and its citizens? Am i being too hysterical in saying I reckon we could have serious violence on the streets, even a civil war?

Charlie Daniels .. yes the country singer .. wrote this article:

Charlie Daniels: It’s Only a Matter of Time Before There Is Blood on the Streets

The rhetoric is becoming hotter and more nonsensical, the radical element more apparent, the violence and destruction of property more common place.

The pot is boiling and it’s only a matter of time before there will be blood on the streets.
He is even saying "It’s Only a Matter of Time Before There Is Blood on the Streets" regardless it seems. Is their something way deeper in the US Society .. a far deeper divide beyond Trump, Pence etc? Has this election only been the catalyst to bring it to the surface??


Could the same apply to UK with the apparent huge rise in hate crimes post Brexit vote and most recently?
 
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IvoShandor

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It seems to be that over the last thirty years many of the divides in American society have grown. The gulf between people in the Democratic party and the Republicans has hardened from the 'rivals yet not-that-dissimilar' state of affairs familar to us on this side of the water to a state of bitter conflict. The difference between the world views of many people on the coasts and those in the Mid-West and the deep South is both large and deep and seemingly irreconcilable. In another post I drew attention to a book 'Strangers in their own land' by Arlie Hochschild, a Berkeley academic. It seems strange to us, in less polarised societies, than an anthropologist from California would go down to investigate the people of rural Louisiana as if she was examining the beliefs of Tuaregs in Morocco or tribesmen in the New Guinea jungle, but this is what is happening in the USA today.
 
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Erudite Caveman

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Nah. The politically angry are middle aged people, who are far too busy to get violent. And the young dangerous ones, well they have their hands full with twitter and drugs and wondering what gender they'd like to hook up with on Tinder to be arsed with the boring political stuff. There might be a bit of blood on the streets, but there is blood on the streets every night, so it's not going to be a big deal.
 

Fractional Reserve

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Nah. The politically angry are middle aged people, who are far too busy to get violent. And the young dangerous ones, well they have their hands full with twitter and drugs and wondering what gender they'd like to hook up with on Tinder to be arsed with the boring political stuff. There might be a bit of blood on the streets, but there is blood on the streets every night, so it's not going to be a big deal.
There will be uproar and civil disorder with as breakdown in law and order in places , the left love violence but the right will have no problem using whatever they have to put a halt to their antics.
 

wombat

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The divide in the U.S. is not as great as the media claim. Most states have Democrats and Republicans well represented at state level although California is heavily Democrat at present. There is a saying "how will it play in Peoria" which is still valid, the majority are there to be persuaded.
 

livingstone

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The subject question is not ignoring that Pence will probably become president, which in of itself should be interesting also ..

And as an aside question - what happens if Pence also goes or gets impeached?

Some say Trump left in place is far better than Pence .. thoughts on this also?

I want to broaden this out a bit more - If trump goes what of America itself and its citizens? Am i being too hysterical in saying I reckon we could have serious violence on the streets, even a civil war?

Charlie Daniels .. yes the country singer .. wrote this article:

Charlie Daniels: It



He is even saying "It’s Only a Matter of Time Before There Is Blood on the Streets" regardless it seems. Is their something way deeper in the US Society .. a far deeper divide beyond Trump, Pence etc? Has this election only been the catalyst to bring it to the surface??


Could the same apply to UK with the apparent huge rise in hate crimes post Brexit vote and most recently?
So firstly, I don't think Trump is going to be impeached any time soon. Not because there isn't anything to justify it (there may well be) and not because there won't be, in the future, anything to justify it (there almost certainly will) but because the GOP in Congress has shown themselves entirely unwilling to call out Trump (with a small number of exceptions) and I don't see the Dems retaking either Chamber in 2018.

But if he did, I think there's about 30% of the population who would back him and will do so whatever he does. There are also about 30% who would oppose him whatever he did. The former group would oppose impeachment no matter how heinous his actions (they'd be convinced it was all a conspiracy, fake news, snowflakes, SJW yada yada). The latter would support impeachment no matter how innocuous because they think that he's doing sufficient damage to the US to justify his removal whether or not his actions qualify as impeachable offences. I would certainly expect significant unrest from a lot of the former group if he were to be impeached - and think the process itself would become both ugly and dangerous.

The other 40% are made up of about one third who support Trump but willing to be critical of him (those who thought he was better on the economy, or hated Clinton, but not blind to his faults) and about two thirds who do not support him (but would want to see him given a fair chance to succeed or fail, and impeachment only be used in extremis).

For the 40%, I think the reason for impeachment would be critical. If the reason was something like ordering Flynn to contact the Russian ambassador and discuss sanctions, I think most of the 40% would not support impeachment.
 

Fractional Reserve

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So firstly, I don't think Trump is going to be impeached any time soon. Not because there isn't anything to justify it (there may well be) and not because there won't be, in the future, anything to justify it (there almost certainly will) but because the GOP in Congress has shown themselves entirely unwilling to call out Trump (with a small number of exceptions) and I don't see the Dems retaking either Chamber in 2018.

But if he did, I think there's about 30% of the population who would back him and will do so whatever he does. There are also about 30% who would oppose him whatever he did. The former group would oppose impeachment no matter how heinous his actions (they'd be convinced it was all a conspiracy, fake news, snowflakes, SJW yada yada). The latter would support impeachment no matter how innocuous because they think that he's doing sufficient damage to the US to justify his removal whether or not his actions qualify as impeachable offences. I would certainly expect significant unrest from a lot of the former group if he were to be impeached - and think the process itself would become both ugly and dangerous.

The other 40% are made up of about one third who support Trump but willing to be critical of him (those who thought he was better on the economy, or hated Clinton, but not blind to his faults) and about two thirds who do not support him (but would want to see him given a fair chance to succeed or fail, and impeachment only be used in extremis).

For the 40%, I think the reason for impeachment would be critical. If the reason was something like ordering Flynn to contact the Russian ambassador and discuss sanctions, I think most of the 40% would not support impeachment.
"certainly will " now thats a bold statment or should it be "I hope"?
 

dalyp

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No thoughts on the impeachment implications - but I wonder what part has the internet played in driving a huge wedge through the centre of the US. Back in the good old days there would be time for people to think before spouting off or at least clarify what they meant and the media would have time to fact check and get the story straight before the 9PM news on TV or the next days newspaper, plus the dangerous loons on the fringes ( present company excepted ;) ) would have had no voice to stir ************************ up
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Tell me one country where the very rich and political classes have not caused division. I used to think that it was only something that happened in big countries with lots of millionaires...as I grew up I saw the same thing was happening in this little town (Ireland)...with the population of a small city.

How did we just let this happen...we should be so far advanced and have a much happier and less divided society than we have....and it's all down to a few plastic bastarderos setting themselves up as gods and no one questioned what they were doing. They wrote the rules for all of us by suiting themselves. Yet so many still blame the English for everything that has befallen us....but our political class have ruined this country between them.

They have taken the worst of decisions because they are incompetent and unable to have any vision beyond the five year cycle. To watch the litany of mistakes and gombeenism been trotted out as politics in this dishevelled backwater is beyond pathetic. Irish people seem to revel in mediocrity and false gods. It just amazes me that we cannot further ourselves and we never will while we have a backwater mindset ruling over us that as soon as they mess up they just go and collect a wad of cash and a big pension for life...no questions asked.

And if questions are asked at a tribunal they just say "...I disagree with that...". and it's over.
 

livingstone

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"certainly will " now thats a bold statment or should it be "I hope"?
I said almost certainly will.

And actually no - I don't want Trump to be impeached. I think he's unleashed an absolutely vile political culture, and defeating that political culture and not just its figurehead is vital. Impeachment will simply feed the victim complex of Trump supporters and do nothing to root out the poison he's injected into political discourse, leaving the gap wide open for a more competent demagogue to come along later and do more damage.

I want to see Trump fail utterly and get absolutely trounced in 2020. Embarrassingly. And I want those in congress who failed to stand up to him to be similarly trounced.
 

robut

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No thoughts on the impeachment implications - but I wonder what part has the internet played in driving a huge wedge through the centre of the US. Back in the good old days there would be time for people to think before spouting off or at least clarify what they meant and the media would have time to fact check and get the story straight before the 9PM news on TV or the next days newspaper, plus the dangerous loons on the fringes ( present company excepted ;) ) would have had no voice to stir ************************ up
Yip good point. Have thought about the same myself. Particularly the Social Media part of the Internet. It feeds the short attention span, click bate loving, couldnt be ars*d to make an effort populations.

An example is adding a link to article in Facebook post. Most peeps will read JUST the headline and form an opinion, then comment on just that, rather than reading the article ( too much trouble ) which could in a lot of cases have a complete other angle on a story unrelated to the headline.

Another is tweeting starting with THE FACT IS or similar, then making a "fact" statement without any back up or links to back up that "fact" ..

Grrrr .. :D
 
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dalyp

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Yip good point. Have thought about the same myself. Particularly the Social Media part of the Internet. It feeds the short attention span, click bate loving, couldnt be ars*d to make an effort populations.

An example is adding a link to article in Facebook post. Most peeps will read JUST the headline and form an opinion on just that, rather than reading the article ( too much trouble ) which could in a lot of cases have a complete other angle on a story unrelated to the headline.

Another is tweeting starting with THE FACT IS or similar, then making a "fact" statement without any back up or links to back up that "fact" ..

Grrrr .. :D
I would not be surprised if by the end of this current circus some type of legislation will be put in place to prohibit elected/appointed officials especially WH staff from posting on any social media - Seriously there should not be a ************************************g word out the white house from anyone apart for a daily briefing unless there is an imminent threat to national security.
 
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robut

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I would not be surprised if by the end of this current circus some type of legislation will be put in place to prohibit elected officials especially WH staff from posting on any social media - Seriously there should not be a ************************************g word out the white house from anyone apart for a daily briefing unless there is an imminent threat to national security.
Yip agree with that too :D

Ill preface the following by saying my thought on this US election is simply that the two candidates were not great, best of a bad lot, if that were possible. So I would not be a supporter of either Hillary or Trump.

I spotted an article somewhere last night that apparently Trumps phone, which he is tweeting from via @realdonaldtrump is still his own UNSECURE ANDROID Phone. Pot Kettle Black?? re Hillary and her private email server? ..

Whats good for the goose is surely good for the gander .. Practice what one preaches etc etc :D

EDIT: here you go:

Senate Democrats want answers about Trump's phone

Senators are asking questions about Trump's reportedly unsecured Android phone
 

IvoShandor

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the left love violence but the right will have no problem using whatever they have to put a halt to their antics.
Whereas the far right are peace-loving innocents. Right, so.
 

Dame_Enda

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Its part of a wider polarisation of western society between globalists and protectionists. The globalists are the comfortably off, industrialists, service industries who use cheap labour because of the pretence that westerners don't like hard work, and most of the media which is often owned by the same industrialists. Some of them cloak their self interest in liberal intellectualism like "multiculturalism/openness/tolerance", while not always tolerating protectionist opinions e.g. Berkeley snowflakes.

The protectionists are low income manual labour, the unemployed as well as those who want to save Western democracy from dangerous ideologies coming in from abroad like Jihadism. These groups rightly believe they have lost out from globalisation in terms of low wages and unemployment.

Of course as Trump shows, a minority exists that defies both stereotypes.
 
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Truth.ie

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If Trump kicks the bucket tonight, the anger and sentiment that got him elected will still be there.
Too many people focus on attacking Trump when they should be dealing with the concerns and fears that helped get him elected.
 

dalyp

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If Trump kicks the bucket tonight, the anger and sentiment that got him elected will still be there.
Too many people focus on attacking Trump when they should be dealing with the concerns and fears that helped get him elected.
Not sure it there is anything to deal with exactly - its more a task of educating

The steel/coal jobs are not coming back
Nobody is coming to take your guns
The Muslims are not coming in droves to kill you and impose sharia law
A wall will not stop the drug problem - it's not the Mexicans driving the trade, its the Americans buying
Global warming is real
And the world is older than 4000 years:D


That's a good start no?
 

GDPR

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It all depends on what he is impeached for. If its Russian, the situation would be so huge and unprecedented that I think major public hand-holding would be needed. The stage would have to be set very carefully. In fact I think he would be told to resign on health grounds or spend the rest of his life in jail.

If its financial iregularities (non-Russian related) then thats different. People expect that.
 

dalyp

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It all depends on what he is impeached for. If its Russian, the situation would be so huge and unprecedented that I think major public hand-holding would be needed. The stage would have to be set very carefully. In fact I think he would be told to resign on health grounds or spend the rest of his life in jail.

If its financial iregularities (non-Russian related) then thats different. People expect that.
the whole thing's mad

"Comrade Vadim - our new guy in the states is ready to carry out his mission" - "No wait Victor I need to clear it with the White House" :D
 


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