"If we have to exterminate 10,000 republicans". The foundations of the state which stood idly by.

McTell

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No
So the vote in December 1918 wasn't about that issue?

It's nice to hear this truth being stated for a change.

No, it was about freedom for the "Irish Nation" that had been captive for 700 years.

Big mistake, the 1918 manifesto said nothing about a 32 county republic. The nordy orangemen knew it didn't include them. London, paris and DC agreed that it didn't. End of.

Nobody apologised or resigned.


Sinn Féin stands less for a political party than for the Nation; it represents the old tradition of nationhood handed on from dead generations; it stands by the Proclamation of the Provisional Government of Easter, 1916, reasserting the inalienable right of the Irish Nation to sovereign independence, reaffirming the determination of the Irish people to achieve it, and guaranteeing within the independent Nation equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens.
Believing that the time has arrived when Ireland's voice for the principle of untrammelled National self-determination should be heard above every interest of party or class, Sinn Féin will oppose at the Polls every individual candidate who does not accept this principle.





"Oppose at the polls" meant "we're starting a war in a month's time". Not very clear even to Conradh na Gaeilge experts.
 


greagh

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Does anyone realistically think that the temporary status quo in the north will last in light of brexit and the in the face of the increasing alienation of northern catholics exemplified by Rory McElroy whom it appears feels more loyalty to the north than particularly Ireland or Britain
 

Catalpast

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Does anyone realistically think that the temporary status quo in the north will last in light of brexit and the in the face of the increasing alienation of northern catholics exemplified by Rory McElroy whom it appears feels more loyalty to the north than particularly Ireland or Britain
Time will change the North

- how exactly we don't know yet.
 

Talk Back

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Is it?

There was a war on, and these people were traitors.
Traitors??? - you are very confused. It obviously wasn't the army of the Irish Republic that waged an illegal war against the Irish Republic.

That treachery belongs to the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organisation, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces .

Those traitors mounted a coup d'état (the overthrow of an existing government by non-democratic means; typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a dictator, the military, or a political faction) on behalf off and with the help of Ireland's historical and hereditary enemy, England.
 

Sweet Darling

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The Northern conflict was a state of war. The Free State stood idly by because it is not a real Republic but rather a corrupt satellite province of Britain, as evidenced by the murders of 81 republican prisoners in the first year of its establishment.
You lot bottled it in 1916 and again in 1919, We owe the northie nasho nothing.
Anti treaty side only had a problem with the Oath of Allegiance. Partition was of little concern to them.
 
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Of the Sword

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You lot bottled it in 1916 and again in 1919, We owe the northie nasho nothing.
Anti treaty side only had a problem with the Oath of Allegiance. Partition was of little concern to them.
Hmmmm..... Only because there was a widespread belief (across pro & anti treaty factions) at the time that partition was only temporary and the border commission (con job) would rule favourabley for the free state.
How would both factions feel at the time if they knew that partition was still a reality 100 years later?
As a fella from the south east who spent years up north went things were bad, I reckon we owe the Northie's big time, and did let them down when they needed some support.
 

Talk Back

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You lot bottled it in 1916 and again in 1919, We owe the northie nasho nothing.
Anti treaty side only had a problem with the Oath of Allegiance. Partition was of little concern to them.
You are not "we" fool - and you are always wrong, though never in doubt.
 

Talk Back

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The native traitors who illegally usurped the 32 county Irish Republic were proud and boasted about the fact that they executed more Irish men during England's proxy war of 1922/23, than England did during the Anglo-Irish war of 1919/21.

ni5F7y.jpg
 

Talk Back

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A direct comparison between Irish Patriots executed by native traitors during England's proxy war of 1922/23, and by England during the Anglo-Irish war of 1919/21.

Shocking stuff.

SgQhOw.jpg
 

McTell

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A direct comparison between Irish Patriots executed by native traitors during England's proxy war of 1922/23, and by England during the Anglo-Irish war of 1919/21.

///
What does it prove? We are better at killing than the brits.
 

McTell

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A lot less dead than Dan Breen allowing for 2 million of us dead so there could be a 32 county republic.

There are sensible limits. The civil war republicans caved in after 77 or 81 executed. Neither of us was alive at the time, so no point in getting het up about it.
 

Barroso

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The native traitors who illegally usurped the 32 county Irish Republic were proud and boasted about the fact that they executed more Irish men during England's proxy war of 1922/23, than England did during the Anglo-Irish war of 1919/21.

ni5F7y.jpg
Interesting poster. Is there a trustworthy source for the quotation on it?
 

Barroso

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What do you imagine you mean?
To begin with, I don't imagine anything.

Where did the quote come from.
Was it true, or was it made up - for electoral purposes for instance.
Was it reported in a newspaper somewhere at the time.

Why is this important? well, if there is independent corroboration for the quote, it's fairly damning.
If there is no corroboration, well it can be shrugged off, even if true.

My own take on the civil war is that some of the Staters were a bloodthirsty lot, while the anti-treaty lot effectively fought a retreat, and that as an organisation their heart was never in the war, they didn't really want to be fighting their friends and family while the Free State government had no such quibbles.
 

Talk Back

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To begin with, I don't imagine anything.

Where did the quote come from.
Was it true, or was it made up - for electoral purposes for instance.
Was it reported in a newspaper somewhere at the time.

Why is this important? well, if there is independent corroboration for the quote, it's fairly damning.
If there is no corroboration, well it can be shrugged off, even if true.

My own take on the civil war is that some of the Staters were a bloodthirsty lot, while the anti-treaty lot effectively fought a retreat, and that as an organisation their heart was never in the war, they didn't really want to be fighting their friends and family while the Free State government had no such quibbles.
A good place to start would be the Mayo newspapers from that time.

Try here. https://www.irishnewsarchive.com/
 
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McTell

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You don't know what you are on about - your posts prove that.

The partition House of Commons of Southern Ireland/illegal provisional Gov, operating under British law, passed its 'Murder Bill' in Sep 1922 - even though under British law, the Master of the Rolls proclaimed in July 1921 that Military Courts in Ireland had no longer any legal status in British law.

In other words - extrajudicial killings in Ireland were illegal, therefore murder under British law - not to mention Irish law.

You'll find both sides were having a go at "extrajudicial killing".

That's what civil wars are all about.
 


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