"Illegal state activity must be admitted" Group on Past

code twinkle

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ILLEGAL STATE ACTIVITY 'MUST BE ADMITTED'
By Ian Graham, PA
Illegal state activity during the decades of Northern Ireland conflict needs to
be owned up to, a body set up by the Government said today.
The Consultative Group on the Past, established by the Government last year to
produce a report on how Northern Ireland dealt with the legacy of its troubled
past, said innocent people had been allowed to die.
The group is due to produce a report later in the year but co-chairman, retired
Church of Ireland primate Lord Eames and former Policing Board vice chairman
Denis Bradley, outlined their current thinking in an address in Belfast.
They made it clear it was not just the actions of the republican and loyalist
terror groups that had to be come to grips with, but those of the British state
as well.
Lord Eames said what many had great difficulty in coming to terms with was that
"the state not only sought to be an honest broker during the conflict but also
played a combative role and, in this context, sometimes went beyond their own
rules of engagement".
He said it was one of the critical issues facing the group, difficult as it may
be for some in society to hear.
"Elements of the state, on some occasions, acted outside the law and through
handling of intelligence it could even be said innocent people were allowed to
die.
"We cannot ignore that, in fact, the state sometimes acted illegally."
The group did not believe unionists had anything to fear from listening to and
trying to understand how the state conducted itself - discovering or admitting
wrong things were done could be a "liberating experience", he said.
 


code twinkle

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Nobody thinks its significant that Lord Eames has stated that Britain was a combatant in the Northern Ireland conflict? Or that it acted illegally? :shock:
 

code twinkle

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Young Ned said:
Well, I notice you didn't offer your thoughts?
Oh sorry I'm actually working today so can only commit half my brain to P.ie :)

I think it's significant alright, I'm surprised and pleased at how far the discourse on the North has been able to come in the past while, it is only a short time ago that Robin Eames just wouldn't have felt able to come out and say something like that.

But I may be wrong about its relevance - clearly its not a topic making people particularly excited today... :)
 

Young Ned

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code twinkle said:
[quote="Young Ned":3kg85hfu]Well, I notice you didn't offer your thoughts?
Oh sorry I'm actually working today so can only commit half my brain to P.ie :)

I think it's significant alright, I'm surprised and pleased at how far the discourse on the North has been able to come in the past while, it is only a short time ago that Robin Eames just wouldn't have felt able to come out and say something like that.

But I may be wrong about its relevance - clearly its not a topic making people particularly excited today... :)[/quote:3kg85hfu]

I think it's significant (and a long time coming, too) on the face of it, but I wonder if it will actually have any actual impact. I mean, do you really think England is going to react in any way to this news, or just try and let it slip out of the news cycle.

If they don't, is there anyone who will at least attempt to hold them to account?
 

st333ve

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Admit they blew up Dublin and Monaghan?

I couldnt see this happening, unionism needs it "holier than thou" attitude, its whiter than white self portrayal too much to admit ever doing anything wrong.
There is also no real desire from outside the north to know the truth, if the same thread was about republicans it would be on its 5th page by now, a sad reflection of the desire to bend over to unionist ideals and their over simplistic view that the troubles was an Ira campaign and little else.

The good thing is that most sane people already know that the British and unionist administration at the time was a terrorist organisation in itself and although they will not admit what they done it will be dragged out of them bit by it, by people who want the history cleared up and forgotten about so that we can move on.

The bad thing about this will be that any attempt to uncover their dirty tricks will be described as 'a waste of money', and any attempt to highlight them will be considered 'dragging up the past', all this will be going on while republican attacks from 30 years ago are regularly dragged up for current political scaremongering and parties like the TUV and the DUP will get more and more support for repeatitly dragging up their one sided view of the past and people like Paisley will be treated like some kind of hero when in actual fact you would need to go fishing in the sewers of hell to find such evil scum with such a great repore.
 

Roger

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st333ve said:
Admit they blew up Dublin and Monaghan?

I couldnt see this happening, unionism needs it "holier than thou" attitude, its whiter than white self portrayal too much to admit ever doing anything wrong.
There is also no real desire from outside the north to know the truth, if the same thread was about republicans it would be on its 5th page by now, a sad reflection of the desire to bend over to unionist ideals and their over simplistic view that the troubles was an Ira campaign and little else.

The good thing is that most sane people already know that the British and unionist administration at the time was a terrorist organisation in itself and although they will not admit what they done it will be dragged out of them bit by it, by people who want the history cleared up and forgotten about so that we can move on.

The bad thing about this will be that any attempt to uncover their dirty tricks will be described as 'a waste of money', and any attempt to highlight them will be considered 'dragging up the past', all this will be going on while republican attacks from 30 years ago are regularly dragged up for current political scaremongering and parties like the TUV and the DUP will get more and more support for repeatitly dragging up their one sided view of the past and people like Paisley will be treated like some kind of hero when in actual fact you would need to go fishing in the sewers ofhell to find such evil scum with such a high opinion amongst others.
"There is also no real desire from outside the north to know the truth, if the same thread was about republicans it would be on its 5th page by now, a sad reflection of the desire to bend over to unionist ideals and their over simplistic view that the troubles was an Ira campaign and little else."

You have said it all and you have said it well. I am a victim of illegal state activity. I do not expect justice. The cover-up will continue.
 

Aindriu

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Roger said:
st333ve said:
Admit they blew up Dublin and Monaghan?

I couldnt see this happening, unionism needs it "holier than thou" attitude, its whiter than white self portrayal too much to admit ever doing anything wrong.
There is also no real desire from outside the north to know the truth, if the same thread was about republicans it would be on its 5th page by now, a sad reflection of the desire to bend over to unionist ideals and their over simplistic view that the troubles was an Ira campaign and little else.

The good thing is that most sane people already know that the British and unionist administration at the time was a terrorist organisation in itself and although they will not admit what they done it will be dragged out of them bit by it, by people who want the history cleared up and forgotten about so that we can move on.

The bad thing about this will be that any attempt to uncover their dirty tricks will be described as 'a waste of money', and any attempt to highlight them will be considered 'dragging up the past', all this will be going on while republican attacks from 30 years ago are regularly dragged up for current political scaremongering and parties like the TUV and the DUP will get more and more support for repeatitly dragging up their one sided view of the past and people like Paisley will be treated like some kind of hero when in actual fact you would need to go fishing in the sewers ofhell to find such evil scum with such a high opinion amongst others.
"There is also no real desire from outside the north to know the truth, if the same thread was about republicans it would be on its 5th page by now, a sad reflection of the desire to bend over to unionist ideals and their over simplistic view that the troubles was an Ira campaign and little else."

You have said it all and you have said it well. I am a victim of illegal state activity. I do not expect justice. The cover-up will continue.
Sadly you are right. Most papers concerning the north were placed under the 30 year rule so they are starting to come out into the public domain. Others, however, were placed under the 100 year rule so the earliest they will be seen will be 2069. I fear the old phrase 'in the interests of national security' will be bandied about if the British govt are asked to release them sooner. It isn't just Westminster however. The Dáil too have restricted access to state papers concerning the north and activities in the south.
 

ArtyQueing

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We all know the reason there is no great push for these thngs to be revealed - too many people in high places in Dublin and London would be discomifed to say the least by the revelations and all the propaganda which spewed from these people would be seen for what it was - lies
 

eskrimador

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A very interesting thread for P'ie's bug to throw up in lite of the inquiries and reports that have been released since and now we have this.....

BBC News - Cameron urged to open Dublin/Monaghan bomb files

Hopefully they release unredacted files. Can't see them doing it though. The implications of what journalists have reported for years would be serious
 


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