IMF says reduce social welfare the longer someone is unemployed - isn't that unfair?

vanla sighs

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The reports I've heard are sugeesting that the longer someone is unemployed the further their social welfare payments are reduced? However in my estimation this is very unfair and unjust. When you have over 400,000 people unemployed currently and you don't have 400,000 jobs to which they can apply for then why exactly should their social welfare be cut the longer they are on the dole? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

And is this supposed to be across the board? Not everyone who is on social welfare is on JB/JA. Some are on a disability payment for example - which doesn't require them to be actively seeking employment. And what of the under 21's, already they have seen their dole payments slashed from about €200 to €100 - are they now to see that €100 further reduced. If so we are walking into a nightmare increase in crime and social meltdown. And what for example of single mothers, how can a single mother take a low paying job when childcare costs are so high? Not everyone has family who can or will mind someones child while they work?

This idea supposedly comes from the IMF however I thought that the IMF only wanted to see cuts and didn't really care where those cuts came from, as long as the State met its agreed target? Can the IMF now impose such measures? I didn't think they could. Is this a recommendation or a measure that has to be implemented?
 


kerryind

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its savage but sadly a sign of things to come was reading the imf website earlier it rather scary were in for a bumpy ride. Basically anything 2 do with money in dis country they can dictate
 

Ingersoll

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It is disgusting - we, as a nation are being destroyed financially. This is where our political and governing classes have led us. I am fortunate enough to have a good engineering job, but i am actively looking to get out and take my family with me to a country where my children are not forced to pay for German, British and Irish bond-holders for decades.
 
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There would be war if that happened.

Imagine poor families being crippled by welfare cuts because daddy couldnt find a job in the past 3 years.
 

Superlepreachaun

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Are these clowns under the impression our unemployment problem is an incentive problem? That a quarter million people decided in late 2008 and early 2009 that gosh darn it they'd love a 2/3 pay cut and thought sure we'll be grand on welfare?
 

kerryind

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imf is on the march while we pay and ordinary joe gets hit hard for mistakes of the rich few.
 

Nonsence & lies

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The simple fact is these guys don't care about poor people, I'm quite certain they'd be HAPPY IF POOR PEOPLE JUST KILLED THEMSELVES and got off welfare freeing up cash to pay them back. Nothing new in that kind of thinking, most rich people would prefer if the poor just disappeared.

I don't know whats going to happen in this country, but i'm pretty sure unless another miracle bubble appears soon, welfare payments will keep dropping, working poor numbers are going to rise dramatically. And then comes the interest rate rises .

But I guess we'll be glad to have saved the 30% who'll always do okay. The likes of that tv3 imbecile mark cagney, whom did his batt o' keffe this morning and said i kid you not... bringing the lowest paid into the tax net will make them feel involved in whats going on in the country. When his co host said some people already finding it hard to feed themsleves, he dismissed that and said "we won't let them starve"

But hey we've acted responsibly, stoped talking about defaulting or runs on banks (for now)
 

beamish2010

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Export for Zimbabwe.

its looking like oz or canada for us irish pity we cant export ff
Yes export Zanu-FF to their original homeland of Zimbabwe...That's if Robert Mugabe wants to take in Clowen and the rest of Zanu-FF.
 

kerryind

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even mugabe could do better than clowen. maybe expprt the 2 brians to north korea dont they have a media ban so we wouldnt have to look at them. Dick Roche Minister for Comical Affairs to be exported to Iran
 

vanla sighs

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But I guess we'll be glad to have saved the 30% who'll always do okay. The likes of that tv3 imbecile mark cagney, whom did his batt o' keffe this morning and said i kid you not... bringing the lowest paid into the tax net will make them feel involved in whats going on in the country. When his co host said some people already finding it hard to feed themsleves, he dismissed that and said "we won't let them starve"

But hey we've acted responsibly, stoped talking about defaulting or runs on banks (for now)
We should default, let the bondholders take the hit. They gambled and we're bailing them out. Argentina defaulted years ago and within 17 weeks they were on the road to recovery. Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others?

There's a march being organised by the unions next Staurday at noon in Dublin, I'm heading off to that, as will tens of thousands of others. Despite what anyone says we can default, we have that option. I'd rather we defaulted, possibly left the eurozone and started anew with one, good, clean, healthy bank - State owned preferably.

A very well known economist here in Ireland, Constantin Gurdgiev, has said that Ireland should default. And he's no leftie. The EU think that they can contain the situation to Ireland and that for some unkown reason the markets won't go after Portugal, Spain and Italy - doubt that very much. They want to sacrifice Ireland for the "greater good". We are being walked all over.

Cagney is a d!ck, hasn't a clue what he's talking about, he should go back to sniffing lines of c*ke. Actually, with statements like that m*ybe he has.
 
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HanleyS

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I was in Indonesia 18 months ago, a country that had a similar bust to us about 13 years ago among other problems. I was amazed by the number of people emp,loyed doing all kinds of jobs that Irish people would never dream of. All middle class Indonesians have drivers and the offices have office boys who run errands. People will work for what they can earn. Even those who can't find a job are enterprising and will go out and sell merchandise or services on the street. I'm not suggesting we are now Indonesia, but there has to be a hppy medium. I am also aware of the massive problems that Indonesia faces but the important point was a willingness to work for a wage.
 

Kevin Parlon

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It is too late to speak of defaulting. The decision to step in an socialize the debts of anglo must now stand as the most catastrophic decisions ever made by an Irish politician. We are, however galling it may seem, where we are. And the grown up thing to do is deal with it. The histrionics from some quarters are starting to grate on my ears at this stage. The country needs a slap in the face followed by a long, cold look at our realistic options.

We could technically do a lot of stuff. Withdrawing from the EU. Banning Money. etc. etc. but that's not going to happen. Talk of leaving the euro and reverting to state controlled banking etc is just teenage fantasy.

We spend more money than we earn in tax and the actual fact of the matter is that welfare has become a concious career choice for some people. That needs to stop. There are vast swathes of people recently thrust onto the dole but I think the measures are more designed to tackle the long term problem of people who simply prefer to sit at home and scrounge off the hard work of others.

The sense of entitlement evident in some sectors of our country is poisonous and it needs to be reformed. So, as regards the OP, increasing the amount of moeny taken from people who work so as to fund a lifetime of wilful indolence for others is unfair.
 
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zippo222

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When and where has the IMF said that Unemployment Assistance is going to be reduced the longer somebody has been unemployed ?. Where are you hearing these reports from ?. Have the IMF made any statements at all ?
 

Kevin Parlon

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vanla sighs

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It is too late to speak of defaulting. The decision to step in an socialize the debts of anglo must now stand as the most catastrophic decisions ever made by an Irish politician. We are, however galling it may seem, where we are. And the grown up thing to do is deal with it. The histronics from some quarters are starting to grate on my ears at this stage. The country needs a slap in the face followed by a long, cold look at our realistic options.

We could technically do a lot of stuff. Withdrawing from the EU. Banning Money. etc. etc. but that's not going to happen. Talk of leaving the euro and reverting to state controlled banking etc is just teenage fantasy.

We spend more money than we earn in tax and the actual fact of the matter is that welfare has become a concious career choice for some people. That needs to stop. There are vast swathes of people recently thrust onto the dole but I think the measures are more designed to tackle the long term problem of people who simply prefer to sit at home and scrounge off the hard work of others.

The sense of entitlement evident in some sectors of our country is poisonous and it needs to be reformed. So, as regards the OP, increasing the amount of moeny taken from people who work so as to fund a lifetime of wilful indolence for others is unfair.
And why exactly is it too late to default? I'd love to hear your rationale.

As for social welfare and the sense of entitlement you speak of, well from my perspective, people are actually entitled to have a decent standard of living, whether unemployed or not. Whether long term or short term unemplyed. What do you consider long term by the way? 2 years or more? 12 months or more? This catastrophe started in September 2008. We now have over 400,000 people unemployed, we do not have 400,000 jobs.

Yes we do spend more money than we take in, we have a deficit of 19 billion. So lets start making substantive cuts at the top and working our way down shall we.
 
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