Imminent budget to protect overpaid,overpensioned public sector despite IMF?

patslatt

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With the IMF waiting in the wings to dictate harsh austerity,will the imminent budget still stick to the delusionary Croke Park Agreement as appears likely and maintain the still bloated levels of public sector pay and pensions? If it does so,that would be a clear signal that the economic future of the country is being sacrificed for temporary industrial peace.

With the explosion in Irish government bond interest rates,interest payments will balloon to maybe a quarter of government spending over the next few years.So without pay cuts or massive redundancies,balancing the budget will gut public services,social welfare and pensions.
 


politicaldonations

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The austere Europeans wont stand for Ireland's pampered public servants. Once the bailout is formally inplace the european media will be full of stories of Irish public sector excess like Irish media was full of stories of greek public sector excess. CPA is only fit for use as bog roll now.
 

patslatt

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The austere Europeans wont stand for Ireland's pampered public servants. Once the bailout is formally inplace the european media will be full of stories of Irish public sector excess like Irish media was full of stories of greek public sector excess. CPA is only fit for use as bog roll now.
Pray you are right.
 

uriah

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Pray you are right.
Pray?

Give it a rest. You are consumed with your hatred and jealousy of the public service worker. It cannot be good for you to be so full of bile.
 

patslatt

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Leech

Pray?

Give it a rest. You are consumed with your hatred and jealousy of the public service worker. It cannot be good for you to be so full of bile.
You are part of the selfish public sector that wants to leech off society and refuses to look at the pay numbers showing you are vastly overpaid. Even the lowest paid make double the €14,000 a year they would get on minimum wages in the private sector.
 

hammer

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What if the IMF believe a more appropriate response to the crisis is slashing pay & numbers.

Can Fianna FAIL refuse?
 

eoghanacht

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Stupid thread, just so Pat can have a crack at the PS.

This is a whole new ball game lads.

The fact that you even posed the question of whether the IMF would honour the agreement shows your a bit thick
 

Beaker

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The more I see, the worse it becomes....

In the Health Service I know of middle managers who are each on €160,000 per year.... the duties & skill... little more than any other manager in a factory over 100 people, but with no supervisory duties...
Many CEO's dont earn this, and they are on 5yr contract with performance targets of get fired....
 

firefly123

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Blah blah blah. Change the record lads. Europe don't give a flying fuk about the wages of nurses etc. When are you going to wake up and realise that this is all about the banks (private sector) and the cabbages who were supposed to regulate them (ff government and senior civil servants).

The 20 billion deficit is loose change compared to the cost of saving these banks. If we did not have that millstone around our neck then we would be well on our way to recovery, our private sector would have access to money to rebuild and our deficit would be a lot smaller.
But carry on pat etc. It's all the nurses fault.
 

patslatt

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Ongoing deficit v one off asset losses at banks

Blah blah blah. Change the record lads. Europe don't give a flying fuk about the wages of nurses etc. When are you going to wake up and realise that this is all about the banks (private sector) and the cabbages who were supposed to regulate them (ff government and senior civil servants).

The 20 billion deficit is loose change compared to the cost of saving these banks. If we did not have that millstone around our neck then we would be well on our way to recovery, our private sector would have access to money to rebuild and our deficit would be a lot smaller.
But carry on pat etc. It's all the nurses fault.
The losses at the banks are one off in nature,though a disastrous €60 billion or so worst case,whereas the €20 billion plus deficits are ongoing and difficult to correct. If the correction is attempted by taxing our way out of it (Labour's likely solution in coalition with Fine Gael),that would tip the economy into a double dip depression without necessarily cutting much off the deficit.
 

firefly123

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The losses at the banks are one off in nature,though a disastrous €60 billion or so worst case,whereas the €20 billion plus deficits are ongoing and difficult to correct. If the correction is attempted by taxing our way out of it (Labour's likely solution in coalition with Fine Gael),that would tip the economy into a double dip depression without necessarily cutting much off the deficit.
I will explain this slowly....

1. We are going to be in hock for a lot more than 60 billion and since we can't pay it all at once it will hang around our neck for generations.

2. We are currently in a 20 billion deficit because our private sector is
hamstrung by zombie banks that won't loan or assist in recovery


3. Senior public sector wage needs to drop drastically. No public servant should earn more than 150k. That said you cannot cut wages of lower paid staff or you will trigger a second banking crisis when they default on mortgages(much as you might get off on that.
3. If we ever do get the economy back to reasonable growth then we won't have a 20billion deficit but we can only expect that to happen when we sort out the banks.
 

GreenIsGood

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What will IMF staff say when they see the fat pay and pensions that politicians and senior public servants pay themselves?

Something like

"You mean you want a bailout from us so that you can continue to pay yourselves that? Well f$ck you, paddy."

:lol:
 

Kevin Doyle

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Oh for God sake Pat will you give it a rest, the ECB and European Commission will go through our budget and they will decide the austerity programme and the manner it takes with the IMF being bit players, they wont be allowed impose the entire rigour of the Washington consensus.

What the accountants and exonomists will look at it raw figures, they will six billions in cuts, in areas such as Health, education and social welfare, they will also be aware that the public sector have taken pay cuts already and are tasked to save money and radically reform to assist making te adjustment in spend without further pay cuts, if the PS fail to deliver they get pay cuts and CPD goes in the bin, I reckon there will be a new round of pays cuts for the public sector anyway, definately not in bugdet 2010 but perhaps in Budget 2011.

I have to laugh when I see the right wing boot boys around here shrieking with ear piercing indignation when their poster boys dont listen to them and weild the axe in a far more ruthless fashion. :)

But relax Pat, there will be pay cuts in te Public Sector but it will be mostly in the PS's power through more efficient reform to determine how savage they are, not you.
 
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Kevin Doyle

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The losses at the banks are one off in nature,though a disastrous €60 billion or so worst case,whereas the €20 billion plus deficits are ongoing and difficult to correct. If the correction is attempted by taxing our way out of it (Labour's likely solution in coalition with Fine Gael),that would tip the economy into a double dip depression without necessarily cutting much off the deficit.

60 billion? Jesus you really have no clue whats going on here do you, Irish banks are into the ECB to the tune of 130 billion (now heaped onto outrtotal soveriegn dept), none of which by the way was used to circulate back into the economy and get lending going again, it was used to pay off bondholders. The Banks are teetering once again on the brink of insolvency again and require fresh recapitalisation which is why the Government where exploring tapping into the ESEF fund (as a stand alone bailout of the banks not the state) with a view to prevent contagion spreading into other Euro economys triggering a possible collapse of the currency. A distinct possibility that the ECB are only all too aware of.

The ECB is now aware that the markets view Ireland and particulalry its banks as the weak link in the Euro and know speculators can attack the euro through the back door by attacking Irelands banks. THAT is what they are looking at, as are the IMF. The budget deficit is a limp second in thier considerations within the context of the overall Irish Economy. We simply dont have the cash to keep afloat these banks saddled with a possible 500 billion in debt which the Irish Government does not have in the event of the blanket guarantee being triggered, Thats what has the markets in a spin regarding our interest rates, not the salary of police and nurses, thatand the fact they have found out our Finance minster is incapable of telling the truth.
 
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uriah

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The losses at the banks are one off in nature,though a disastrous €60 billion or so worst case,whereas the €20 billion plus deficits are ongoing and difficult to correct. If the correction is attempted by taxing our way out of it (Labour's likely solution in coalition with Fine Gael),that would tip the economy into a double dip depression without necessarily cutting much off the deficit.
Of course an increase in income tax would affect all, including the public service, equally. Those over-paid public service you despise so much would pay far more of course since their pay is so huge, and the likes of you on reasonable pay would contribute less.

Of course that would mean that you would have to take a hit this time. You just think that your selfish hide should be spared once again while others take further hits.

Your optimism on the total amount required to bail out the banks is truly astonishing.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Your optimism on the total amount required to bail out the banks is truly astonishing.

Its worse than that, Its convinced me that without a shadow of a doubt, Pat simply hasn't got a clue what's going on and believes every word out of Lenihans mouth.

He true believes that if you cut Public sector pay it will spare the need for tax increases.
 

patslatt

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Especially higher than IMF's and ECB's staffs!

What will IMF staff say when they see the fat pay and pensions that politicians and senior public servants pay themselves?

Something like

"You mean you want a bailout from us so that you can continue to pay yourselves that? Well f$ck you, paddy."

:lol:
 

patslatt

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Your choreographed efficiency cuts are two years too late

Oh for God sake Pat will you give it a rest, the ECB and European Commission will go through our budget and they will decide the austerity programme and the manner it takes with the IMF being bit players, they wont be allowed impose the entire rigour of the Washington consensus.

What the accountants and exonomists will look at it raw figures, they will six billions in cuts, in areas such as Health, education and social welfare, they will also be aware that the public sector have taken pay cuts already and are tasked to save money and radically reform to assist making te adjustment in spend without further pay cuts, if the PS fail to deliver they get pay cuts and CPD goes in the bin, I reckon there will be a new round of pays cuts for the public sector anyway, definately not in bugdet 2010 but perhaps in Budget 2011.

I have to laugh when I see the right wing boot boys around here shrieking with ear piercing indignation when their poster boys dont listen to them and weild the axe in a far more ruthless fashion. :)

But relax Pat, there will be pay cuts in te Public Sector but it will be mostly in the PS's power through more efficient reform to determine how savage they are, not you.
 

davidcameron

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What will IMF staff say when they see the fat pay and pensions that politicians and senior public servants pay themselves?
:lol:
If it had not been for the incessant pay rise demands from PS unions, the TDs, senators and ministers and civil service advisors would not have got pay rises in the first place. The PS unions prefer service cuts to pay cuts. They regard handicapped children waiting for educational assistance and life-saving medical treatment as untermenschen and protect HSE managers who screwed up in Roscommon incest, Tracey Fay and Daniel McAnespie cases. David Begg, Jack O'Connor, Blair Horan, Bertie Ahern, hang your heads in shame.
 

patslatt

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The bank assets are impaired but not worthless

60 billion? Jesus you really have no clue whats going on here do you, Irish banks are into the ECB to the tune of 130 billion (now heaped onto outrtotal soveriegn dept), none of which by the way was used to circulate back into the economy and get lending going again, it was used to pay off bondholders. The Banks are teetering once again on the brink of insolvency again and require fresh recapitalisation which is why the Government where exploring tapping into the ESEF fund (as a stand alone bailout of the banks not the state) with a view to prevent contagion spreading into other Euro economys triggering a possible collapse of the currency. A distinct possibility that the ECB are only all too aware of.

The ECB is now aware that the markets view Ireland and particulalry its banks as the weak link in the Euro and know speculators can attack the euro through the back door by attacking Irelands banks. THAT is what they are looking at, as are the IMF. The budget deficit is a limp second in thier considerations within the context of the overall Irish Economy. We simply dont have the cash to keep afloat these banks saddled with a possible 500 billion in debt which the Irish Government does not have in the event of the blanket guarantee being triggered, Thats what has the markets in a spin regarding our interest rates, not the salary of police and nurses, thatand the fact they have found out our Finance minster is incapable of telling the truth.
 


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