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Impact of immigration from Europe on the Irish language


Cai

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My blog has been running a series of posts on the 2011 census returns on the Welsh language recently.

The latest post looked at the relationship between the ability to speak the Welsh language & immigration levels in 12 wards in different parts of the country. BlogMenai.com: I ble'r aeth Saeson Caernarfon?

When I looked at my own town (which saw a decline of 0.5% in the percentage of Welsh speakers) I was surprised at the extent of immigration from outside the UK. In fact there are more people born outside the UK than there are born in England. Had the East European immigration not happened there's little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially locally.

Is this replicated in Ireland? Ie - is there East European immigration into Gaeltacht areas & is it having an impact on the vitality of Irish as a spoken medium?
 


Angler

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I doubt it , employment prospects tend to be thin on the ground in Gaeltacht areas.
 

statsman

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My blog has been running a series of posts on the 2011 census returns on the Welsh language recently.

The latest post looked at the relationship between the ability to speak the Welsh language & immigration levels in 12 wards in different parts of the country. BlogMenai.com: I ble'r aeth Saeson Caernarfon?

When I looked at my own town (which saw a decline of 0.5% in the percentage of Welsh speakers) I was surprised at the extent of immigration from outside the UK. In fact there are more people born outside the UK than there are born in England. Had the East European immigration not happened there's little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially locally.

Is this replicated in Ireland? Ie - is there East European immigration into Gaeltacht areas & is it having an impact on the vitality of Irish as a spoken medium?
No. Irish is, sadly, a moribund language. In my experience almost none of the 'native' residents of the Gaeltachts on the Western seaboard barely pay lipservice any more.
 

BodyPolathick

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East European immigration into the Gaeltacht was substantial over the years and is still present in substantial numbers.
 

Cai

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No. Irish is, sadly, a moribund language. In my experience almost none of the 'native' residents of the Gaeltachts on the Western seaboard barely pay lipservice any more.
I'm not sure that I agree. I spent time in Inishmore & almost everyone used Irish there. I also once found myself in a pub somewhere in Donegal where I was the only non Irish speaker.
 

BodyPolathick

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Does it have an impact on the use of Irish?
Yes IMHO I go to the Gaeltacht to speak Irish and take it easy, I was on the Aran Island a few years ago and the local shop was staffed by Poles, loudly speaking Polish for the first couple of hours I did not converse with anybody in Irish, haven't been back since, I now go to other areas.
 

mahrud

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Any irish speaking community that has a large influx of non-irish speakers midst will be affected whether they are from Dublin or Lublin.

I'd guess that a large influx of non-Irish speakers from Dublin could affect the community's ability to retain Irish more than if large number of Poles, Russians etc arrived.
 

rainmaker

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Had the East European immigration not happened there's little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially locally.
Idiotic, bizarre logic.

I could understand immigration reducing the percentage of Welsh speakers appearing in a census - however I fail to see how those same immigrants somehow prevented an increase in the number of Welsh speakers.

This OP is a prime example of a xenophobe looking for a scapegoat.
 

Cai

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Idiotic, bizarre logic.

I could understand immigration reducing the percentage of Welsh speakers appearing in a census - however I fail to see how those same immigrants somehow prevented an increase in the number of Welsh speakers.

This OP is a prime example of a xenophobe looking for a scapegoat.
This is basic mathematics isn't it? If the total population is smaller the percentage of Welsh speakers is higher. I haven't mentioned the prevention of an increase in numbers. It's you who's done that.

I'm absolutely amazed that you manage to find xenophobia in the OP.
 

rainmaker

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I haven't mentioned the prevention of an increase in numbers. It's you who's done that.
Is that so?

Had the East European immigration not happened there's little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially locally.
That also answers the question on the perception of xenophobia.
 

rainmaker

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Please re read what you've quoted & think about it for a minute.
Perhaps it is you who needs to perform a re-read.

You deny claiming a 'prevention in the increase of numbers'. Yet you wrote clearly:

Had the East European immigration not happened there's little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially locally.
So had it not been for those pesky immigrants you say there would have been an increase in Welsh speakers - therefore you do actually claim an increase was prevented. By immigrants.

Perhaps your point is too complex or can only be fully grasped by other isolationist xenophobes.
 

Riadach

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Perhaps it is you who needs to perform a re-read.

You deny claiming a 'prevention in the increase of numbers'. Yet you wrote clearly:



So had it not been for those pesky immigrants you say there would have been an increase in Welsh speakers - therefore you do actually claim an increase was prevented. By immigrants.

Perhaps your point is too complex or can only be really grasped by other isolationist xenophobes.
This really is nonsense, rainmaker. I think it is perfectly clear what he is saying. The increase in population meant that the proportion of Welsh speakers in the community was smaller. That's hardly rocket science.
 

Cai

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Perhaps it is you who needs to perform a re-read.

You deny claiming a 'prevention in the increase of numbers'. Yet you wrote clearly:



So had it not been for those pesky immigrants you say there would have been an increase in Welsh speakers - therefore you do actually claim an increase was prevented. By immigrants.

Perhaps your point is too complex or can only be fully grasped by other isolationist xenophobes.
I say that the percentage would have increased - the percentage.

Do you not see the difference between percentage & number?
 

Telemachus

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This is basic mathematics isn't it? If the total population is smaller the percentage of Welsh speakers is higher. I haven't mentioned the prevention of an increase in numbers. It's you who's done that.

I'm absolutely amazed that you manage to find xenophobia in the OP.
Stainmaker could find xenophobia in his morning coffee.
 

rainmaker

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This really is nonsense, rainmaker. I think it is perfectly clear what he is saying. The increase in population meant that the proportion of Welsh speakers in the community was smaller. That's hardly rocket science.
No, I already stated I Could have understood that claim. More non Welsh speakers in a locality would indeed reduce the percentage.

But he states clearly that there is ''little doubt that the percentage of Welsh speakers would have increased substantially'' if it were not for immigration.

I do not see how immigrants would have prevented an increase in locals identifying as Welsh speakers - that would still occur immigrants or no immigrants.
 

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