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In Praise of Patriarchy

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
A certain amount of Patriarchy is healthy and necessary in any society. We have the situation in the West were pretty much all commodity production and commodity advertisement is aimed at women. You can say that this is another case of men exploiting women, but women do seem to fall for it far too easily for it not to be quite pleasurable for them. This is a world created by men according to what they think women will buy. Perhaps that's why it's so rubbish. It's not what men want, and it's not what women really want either. The great cultures that produced works of lasting importance had a very different idea. The Patriarch opens the space for great thinking and great art.

Regarding patriarchy, Dostoevsky wrote that if God does not exist, then everything is allowed. In the 1960s, Jacques Lacan changed that to - If God does not exist, then nothing is allowed. Lacan's point is that the function of the father in the family, i.e. the Paternal Function, is to be the one that turns a blind eye to the child's naughty behaviour. And that's not in any way the same thing as ignoring it. The father gives the child the space to break the rules, and therefore come to understand what the rules are, and, eventually, to freely adopt those rules for himself. In the same way, if there is no God to turn a blind eye, then we become our own unforgiving policeman. We might suspect that God will look the other way, but we can never look the other way for ourselves. Without God, we punish ourselves for every infraction - even smoking becomes a sin. This is the ultimate police state. We cannot write poetry, because it will never be good enough. We cannot paint, because all the topics are used up. So, we fall into an ironic mockery of poetry and art. And all of life becomes ironic. Never really there. And we see this particularly with the Western Left. Forgiveness is in very short supply. If you did something naughty 20 years ago, our Lefties will still be trying to make political capital out of it. We would be better to give the Old Father his due, and allow ourselves some freedom and forgiveness.

And this brings us to that great Patriarch, Karl Marx. Marx wrote: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." Marx is not saying that religion was devised as some kind of palliative to keep the people oppressed. Obviously, if Marx says that religion is still the heart and soul of the modern world, that it is the very sigh of a humankind that is hanging on the cross of exploitation, isolation and exclusion, then he is not saying that it is unimportant, or in error, or some kind of delusion. Just the opposite. He is saying that religion remains our only connection with our true human nature in a dehumanized world. Unfortunately, as we saw in the recent referendum on gay marriage, religion has lost its power to be a political force in the modern world. It has retreated to the sanctuary. As opium does, it offers momentary relief from the pain and horror of the Liberal régime. Small moments of being human again, if only in the world of dreams. Can the Church come out of the sanctuary and into the political world? I don't think Marx thought so, and we can't blame him for that. In the last 150 years, Christendom has been on a constant retreat into the world of dreams. If that can be changed, it will be changed by the laity, and the clergy will follow. That was already tried with Liberation Theology - inspired by none other than Karl Marx. Then the clergy still had enough power to continue to cut its own throat. Fortunately, the clergy no longer has the strength to kill the Church, and I have no doubt that the people will take the Church into their own hands and bring it back into the real world.
 


silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
15,936
Marx wasn't a Patriarch , he was a sponger most of his life wasn't he?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
Marx wasn't a Patriarch , he was a sponger most of his life wasn't he?
Uh he was one if not THE greatest sociologists of all time. The fact that Engels supported his work in the latter part of his life hardly makes him a sponger. Have you actually read Marx?
 

Cruimh

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Messages
85,702
A certain amount of Patriarchy is healthy and necessary in any society. We have the situation in the West were pretty much all commodity production and commodity advertisement is aimed at women. You can say that this is another case of men exploiting women, but women do seem to fall for it far too easily for it not to be quite pleasurable for them. This is a world created by men according to what they think women will buy. Perhaps that's why it's so rubbish. It's not what men want, and it's not what women really want either. The great cultures that produced works of lasting importance had a very different idea. The Patriarch opens the space for great thinking and great art.

Regarding patriarchy, Dostoevsky wrote that if God does not exist, then everything is allowed. In the 1960s, Jacques Lacan changed that to - If God does not exist, then nothing is allowed. Lacan's point is that the function of the father in the family, i.e. the Paternal Function, is to be the one that turns a blind eye to the child's naughty behaviour. And that's not in any way the same thing as ignoring it. The father gives the child the space to break the rules, and therefore come to understand what the rules are, and, eventually, to freely adopt those rules for himself. In the same way, if there is no God to turn a blind eye, then we become our own unforgiving policeman. We might suspect that God will look the other way, but we can never look the other way for ourselves. Without God, we punish ourselves for every infraction - even smoking becomes a sin. This is the ultimate police state. We cannot write poetry, because it will never be good enough. We cannot paint, because all the topics are used up. So, we fall into an ironic mockery of poetry and art. And all of life becomes ironic. Never really there. And we see this particularly with the Western Left. Forgiveness is in very short supply. If you did something naughty 20 years ago, our Lefties will still be trying to make political capital out of it. We would be better to give the Old Father his due, and allow ourselves some freedom and forgiveness.

And this brings us to that great Patriarch, Karl Marx. Marx wrote: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." Marx is not saying that religion was devised as some kind of palliative to keep the people oppressed. Obviously, if Marx says that religion is still the heart and soul of the modern world, that it is the very sigh of a humankind that is hanging on the cross of exploitation, isolation and exclusion, then he is not saying that it is unimportant, or in error, or some kind of delusion. Just the opposite. He is saying that religion remains our only connection with our true human nature in a dehumanized world. Unfortunately, as we saw in the recent referendum on gay marriage, religion has lost its power to be a political force in the modern world. It has retreated to the sanctuary. As opium does, it offers momentary relief from the pain and horror of the Liberal régime. Small moments of being human again, if only in the world of dreams. Can the Church come out of the sanctuary and into the political world? I don't think Marx thought so, and we can't blame him for that. In the last 150 years, Christendom has been on a constant retreat into the world of dreams. If that can be changed, it will be changed by the laity, and the clergy will follow. That was already tried with Liberation Theology - inspired by none other than Karl Marx. Then the clergy still had enough power to continue to cut its own throat. Fortunately, the clergy no longer has the strength to kill the Church, and I have no doubt that the people will take the Church into their own hands and bring it back into the real world.
An echo ?

In Praise of Patriarchy | Political Irish
 

Irish-Rationalist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3,337
Well, at least this one wasn't about the racial supremacy of the warrior Gael. Which was refreshing.
 

silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
15,936
Uh he was one if not THE greatest sociologists of all time. The fact that Engels supported his work in the latter part of his life hardly makes him a sponger. Have you actually read Marx?
Most sociologists hate "patriarchy" , unless the term is being used differently as in just the of a new movement? he is just not a fella or philosophy I would use Patriarch for
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
2,592
A certain amount of Patriarchy is healthy and necessary in any society. We have the situation in the West were pretty much all commodity production and commodity advertisement is aimed at women. You can say that this is another case of men exploiting women, but women do seem to fall for it far too easily for it not to be quite pleasurable for them. This is a world created by men according to what they think women will buy. Perhaps that's why it's so rubbish. It's not what men want, and it's not what women really want either. The great cultures that produced works of lasting importance had a very different idea. The Patriarch opens the space for great thinking and great art.

Regarding patriarchy, Dostoevsky wrote that if God does not exist, then everything is allowed. In the 1960s, Jacques Lacan changed that to - If God does not exist, then nothing is allowed. Lacan's point is that the function of the father in the family, i.e. the Paternal Function, is to be the one that turns a blind eye to the child's naughty behaviour. And that's not in any way the same thing as ignoring it. The father gives the child the space to break the rules, and therefore come to understand what the rules are, and, eventually, to freely adopt those rules for himself. In the same way, if there is no God to turn a blind eye, then we become our own unforgiving policeman. We might suspect that God will look the other way, but we can never look the other way for ourselves. Without God, we punish ourselves for every infraction - even smoking becomes a sin. This is the ultimate police state. We cannot write poetry, because it will never be good enough. We cannot paint, because all the topics are used up. So, we fall into an ironic mockery of poetry and art. And all of life becomes ironic. Never really there. And we see this particularly with the Western Left. Forgiveness is in very short supply. If you did something naughty 20 years ago, our Lefties will still be trying to make political capital out of it. We would be better to give the Old Father his due, and allow ourselves some freedom and forgiveness.

And this brings us to that great Patriarch, Karl Marx. Marx wrote: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." Marx is not saying that religion was devised as some kind of palliative to keep the people oppressed. Obviously, if Marx says that religion is still the heart and soul of the modern world, that it is the very sigh of a humankind that is hanging on the cross of exploitation, isolation and exclusion, then he is not saying that it is unimportant, or in error, or some kind of delusion. Just the opposite. He is saying that religion remains our only connection with our true human nature in a dehumanized world. Unfortunately, as we saw in the recent referendum on gay marriage, religion has lost its power to be a political force in the modern world. It has retreated to the sanctuary. As opium does, it offers momentary relief from the pain and horror of the Liberal régime. Small moments of being human again, if only in the world of dreams. Can the Church come out of the sanctuary and into the political world? I don't think Marx thought so, and we can't blame him for that. In the last 150 years, Christendom has been on a constant retreat into the world of dreams. If that can be changed, it will be changed by the laity, and the clergy will follow. That was already tried with Liberation Theology - inspired by none other than Karl Marx. Then the clergy still had enough power to continue to cut its own throat. Fortunately, the clergy no longer has the strength to kill the Church, and I have no doubt that the people will take the Church into their own hands and bring it back into the real world.
Jobs.ie - Jobs in Ireland. Irish Jobs.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,497
Well, at least this one wasn't about the racial supremacy of the warrior Gael. Which was refreshing.
I dunno, I was beginning to get fond of the racial supremacy of the warrior Gael, it had taken on a kind of comforting familiarity. Like a child's teddy bear all ragged with its eyes missing. Not sure what to do with this entirely new type of insanity.
 

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,159
"Have I told you about my theory of Dialectical Materialism.... Oh look, Vat is this!"
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
The one thing that baffles me is that when feminists and Trot-Marxists meet a barbaric patriarchy, yhey demand that it's adherents get respect and free stuff.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
The one thing that baffles me is that when feminists and Trot-Marxists meet a barbaric patriarchy, yhey demand that it's adherents get respect and free stuff.
Could you restate that in the Queen's English please, so that we might be able to repond.
 

SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
The one thing that baffles me is that when feminists and Trot-Marxists meet a barbaric patriarchy, yhey demand that it's adherents get respect and free stuff.
I'm sure this made sense inside your head.

Do we really have to continue to endure this endless drivel from a handful of utter loons? I'm all for free speech in general, but in practice a handful of demented-yet-prolific posters are making p.ie a pointless and vaguely foul-smelling experience these days. It seems like many months since there was an actual thread on an actual sane grown-up subject.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,497
I'm sure this made sense inside your head.

Do we really have to continue to endure this endless drivel from a handful of utter loons? I'm all for free speech in general, but in practice a handful of demented-yet-prolific posters are making p.ie a pointless and vaguely foul-smelling experience these days. It seems like many months since there was an actual thread on an actual sane grown-up subject.
Try one of the NAMA threads.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
I'm sure this made sense inside your head.

Do we really have to continue to endure this endless drivel from a handful of utter loons? I'm all for free speech in general, but in practice a handful of demented-yet-prolific posters are making p.ie a pointless and vaguely foul-smelling experience these days. It seems like many months since there was an actual thread on an actual sane grown-up subject.
The idea of you calling anyone else a loon is more and a little amusing. You seem to have fried your last brain cells a long time ago in the buckfast.

But, I see your fellow sectarian extremist Cruimh liked your post, so I guess I am building bridges between you people :roll:
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
I would call myself a Pro-Feminine Complimentarian as opposed to either a Feminist or a believer in Patriarchy however it is simply a fact that a family as opposed to a couple as such needs either a Patriarch or Matriarch around which to centre.
 

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