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Income Tax and who should pay it


partnership

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Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
467
I was reading an article in the Times about one of Irelands most popular artists and how he ended up on the revenue defaulters list. Apparently this is due to the artists exemption which once was unlimited (how the hell they thought that was ok) had been reduced and I can see how people can get caught out like that. I also heard a discussion on the radio which said that our tax system was based on the UK one but whilst the UK have since changed their system twice we have never changed our tax system.

However I thought it would be good to get peoples views on income tax and who should pay it. I will kick start with the view that everyone should pay income tax of some sort including people on welfare. However I am not talking about people on welfare paying a huge amount - just a nominal €1 would be sufficient. The reason I say this is because we need to instil in everyone that they have responsibilities and not just entitlements, it will also stop people having a go at people on welfare or calling them freeloaders.

So someone on welfare pays the nominal €1.
Then we look at low earnings and have a small percentage and increase gradually.

I want to focus purely on income tax not all the other taxes - start by devising income tax and then look at the others.
 


wexfordman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
7,877
A min percentage of all income should be liable for income tax. A Max limit on ....oh feckt I couldn't be ar5sed it doesn't matter what I think nothing will change, its all so feckin pointless!
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,189
The Bonox.

And the rest of the bonoxes.
 

Berty

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Nov 9, 2010
Messages
966
Lots of welfare recipients will be paying property tax and may be more than some who are not on social welfare.
 

Analyzer

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Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,189
Malteser.
 
B

Boggle

I thought you were going to ask whether employees should pay their own taxes or whether employers should deduct it at source.

As for your op, yeah I think even those on the smallest incomes should contribute something - even if only a token sum of a euro a week. Its purely for psychological reasons though as it may empower them to take more control of the system and expect better.
On the other hand, it may do sod all for them.
 

Silentmajority

Active member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
208
I thought you were going to ask whether employees should pay their own taxes or whether employers should deduct it at source.

As for your op, yeah I think even those on the smallest incomes should contribute something - even if only a token sum of a euro a week. Its purely for psychological reasons though as it may empower them to take more control of the system and expect better.
On the other hand, it may do sod all for them.

Well lets start by defining Income Tax.

For me it is all state deductions from earned income = IT + PRSI + USC + Income Levies (old health levy etc).

And I think all income should be subject to it at some level including SW.
 

Harmonica

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Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
5,827
Everyone should pay & all income should be treated the same. No exemptions for artists, sports people or welfare income. If welfare rates have to be increased to allow for the fact will have to pay tax then so be it.

I am also feed up with hearing how we have low income tax as it is completely untrue. Top rate kicks in about 35K in Ireland compared with about 180K in the UK. Similar examples can be found for Germany & other EU countries. In Ireland a bigger chunk of income at the bottom is exempt but the top rate kicks in at very modest income levels.
 

ShankillFalls

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Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
380
Apparently this is due to the artists exemption which once was unlimited (how the hell they thought that was ok) had been reduced and I can see how people can get caught out like that.
You are being very generous if you think it was easy to "get caught out like that". There was a plenty of coverage of the ending of the unlimited artists' exemption, there is no excuse for somehow not knowing about it.
 

ShankillFalls

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
380
The Bonox.

And the rest of the bonoxes.
Not bad - only took the second reply to get in the mention of Bono. Next time you may get first.

The fact that he is resident in Ireland and pays income tax should not put you off.

The Malteser, on the other hand, is not resident here....
 

redhead

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Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
6,895
I was reading an article in the Times about one of Irelands most popular artists and how he ended up on the revenue defaulters list. Apparently this is due to the artists exemption which once was unlimited (how the hell they thought that was ok) had been reduced and I can see how people can get caught out like that. I also heard a discussion on the radio which said that our tax system was based on the UK one but whilst the UK have since changed their system twice we have never changed our tax system.

However I thought it would be good to get peoples views on income tax and who should pay it. I will kick start with the view that everyone should pay income tax of some sort including people on welfare. However I am not talking about people on welfare paying a huge amount - just a nominal €1 would be sufficient. The reason I say this is because we need to instil in everyone that they have responsibilities and not just entitlements, it will also stop people having a go at people on welfare or calling them freeloaders.

So someone on welfare pays the nominal €1.
Then we look at low earnings and have a small percentage and increase gradually.

I want to focus purely on income tax not all the other taxes - start by devising income tax and then look at the others.

I don't know the figures but I suspect that the numbers on social welfare who have never paid income tax are a relatively small stable minority based on the numbers unemployed during the boom. This would mean that the majority of those in receipt of social welfare would have contributed at some point through PAYE/PRSI or self-assessment and therefore are entitled to the benefits they receive.

As for taxing benefits, I am happy to be corrected on this by someone who has a better grasp of the numbers involved, but I suspect that it would be an entire waste of time, money and resources to implement and would simply be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul in an effort to appease overburdened middle-income earners who feel resentful about where their income tax is going in recent years.

It strikes me that a far better solution would be to implement a three tiered system of PAYE but I'm not an expert so maybe the numbers wouldn't stack up.
 

cobhguy

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Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
696
No one on SW should be paying an income tax.
People on SW already pay a lot of tax's like VAT.
Paye should not kick in till over 20,000.
 

frequency

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Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
943
Taxes need to be increased at a lower level. Someone on 20k in Ireland pays for nothing whereas in Germany (where we are always on about benchmarking against for public sector jobs) someone on 20k pays a lot more, including healthcare.

As it stands, someone in Ireland on 35-45k is paying for 2 or 3 families to live for nothing, and they get little in return. Ireland is a welfare state, with a massively progressive tax regime that punishes anyone who previously would have a middle-class (whatever that still is) existence.
 

davoid

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
No one on SW should be paying an income tax.
People on SW already pay a lot of tax's like VAT.
Paye should not kick in till over 20,000.
So if I go to work and earn 29,000, and my neighbour stays in bed all day and gets 30,000 SW, my neighbour should pay no tax and I should?


And btw PAYE does not kick in until 16,300.
 

stopdoingstuff

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,892
So if I go to work and earn 29,000, and my neighbour stays in bed all day and gets 30,000 SW, my neighbour should pay no tax and I should?


.
You should work and claim benefits obviously.
 

RahenyFG

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,206
The wealthy should pay all the rest of the outstanding tax increases on the way in future years. The ordinary joes have suffered hard enough, give us a break.
 

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